Author Topic: Were the previous burglaries at Ocean Club Garden related to the abduction?  (Read 30625 times)

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AnneGuedes

  • Guest
The first sentence is a condensed summary  - an interpretation by someone else and not Kate McCanns own words.    It's not easy to accurately describe to a third party what exactly happened with curtains in a breeze, without standing by the actual window to show what happened.    Easy for small misunderstandings to happen during that conversation IMO.  That is what I think happened.

The second two texts are in her own words  - and in both she states the curtains were closed.
It's indirect speach, yes. But are you suggesting the accredited interpret mistook "shut" (fechado)  for "open" (aberto) ?
I remind you that Mrs McCann had to sign the statement after having heard it retranslated in English. There's no syntax issue here, just the simple word "open", repeated 3 times. Without Mrs McCann noticing ? Come on !

Offline Carana

In the tapas groups joint statement typed in English and delivered to the PJ on 10 May it is said she ran over and opened the curtains. Another version. Then we have The gust of wind flew the curtains open from a closed position spoken about in various interviews and their  documentary.? version 4? Or misunderstandings?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

From Madeleije was Here documentary
as I went back in, the curtains of the bedroom which were drawn,… were closed, … whoosh … It was like a gust of wind, kinda, just blew them open


From Mccanns on Oprah
literally as I went back into their room the curtains that were drawn over just "foooosh" flew open and that's when I saw that the shutter was right up and the window was pushed right ope

Are we looking at different documents?


At this point, she notices the curtains blowing forward with a gust of wind. She runs over, pulls open the curtain and notices the shutter was completely reaised, and the window pushed open to the left as far as possible.





What's inconsistent?

« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 03:43:19 PM by Carana »

Redblossom

  • Guest
Same document Carana, obviously, the  difference is whether Mrs Mccann or the wind (as she relates from the other quotes I posted) opened the curtains, and/or indeed if her first statement is correct that she found them open on entering the room.

Edited
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 05:58:30 PM by Redblossom »

Offline Benice

It's indirect speach, yes. But are you suggesting the accredited interpret mistook "shut" (fechado)  for "open" (aberto) ?
I remind you that Mrs McCann had to sign the statement after having heard it retranslated in English. There's no syntax issue here, just the simple word "open", repeated 3 times. Without Mrs McCann noticing ? Come on !

I'm saying that where the opening and closing of three different items i.e. windows, shutters and curtains is being discussed in the same conversation  - the language barrier would be a reason for small misunderstandings to occur over what was open and what was shut and when.   

It may be that Kate didn't notice a small discrepancy when it was being read back to her.  There is a huge difference between having something read back to you at the readers pace, and actually reading words on a page at your own pace where discrepancies would leap out of the page at you.   Having to have everything translated and re-translated back and forth during interviews which could go on for many hours must be very tiring, so once again there is room for human error on both sides due to fatigue.   

There are 3 statements.  Two by Kate herself in her own words so we know there is no possibility of error there. and one statement which is a summarised interpretation by someone else of her words - where IMO there is room for error.

And of course at the time Kate had no idea that every single word she ever spoke was going to be pored over, put under a microscope and dissected at some future time by people looking to find fault.





 
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Heriberto Janosch


And of course at the time Kate had no idea that every single word she ever spoke was going to be pored over, put under a microscope and dissected at some future time by people looking to find fault.


Your may be wrong Benice. I can not believe there exist people so sick!

Heri.

« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 07:29:23 PM by Heriberto Janosch »

Offline Benice

Your are wrong Benice. I can not believe there exist people so sick!

Heri.

Unfortunately I have seen loads of examples on the hate forums Heri.   It's pathetic.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Carana

In the tapas groups joint statement typed in English and delivered to the PJ on 10 May it is said she ran over and opened the curtains. Another version. Then we have The gust of wind flew the curtains open from a closed position spoken about in various interviews and their  documentary.? version 4? Or misunderstandings?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/TIME_LINE_3_MAY_07.htm

At this point, she notices the curtains blowing forward with a gust of wind. She runs over, pulls open the curtain and notices the shutter was completely raised, and the window pushed open to the left as far as possible.

From Madeleine  was Here documentary
as I went back in, the curtains of the bedroom which were drawn,… were closed, … whoosh … It was like a gust of wind, kinda, just blew them open


From Mccanns on Oprah
literally as I went back into their room the curtains that were drawn over just "foooosh" flew open and that's when I saw that the shutter was right up and the window was pushed right open
Edited

Did the "interpreter" who was the first person called in at short notice, and the police officer making notes, understand a) her accent and b) what she may have said to express the idea of "curtains that were drawn over just  "foooosh" flew open"?

A recorded interview would have clarified all of this.

Redblossom

  • Guest
I'm saying that where the opening and closing of three different items i.e. windows, shutters and curtains is being discussed in the same conversation  - the language barrier would be a reason for small misunderstandings to occur over what was open and what was shut and when.     

Only there was never any issue about the window and shutters being open on Kate Mccanns check.

Offline Carana

I'm saying that where the opening and closing of three different items i.e. windows, shutters and curtains is being discussed in the same conversation  - the language barrier would be a reason for small misunderstandings to occur over what was open and what was shut and when.   

It may be that Kate didn't notice a small discrepancy when it was being read back to her.  There is a huge difference between having something read back to you at the readers pace, and actually reading words on a page at your own pace where discrepancies would leap out of the page at you.   Having to have everything translated and re-translated back and forth during interviews which could go on for many hours must be very tiring, so once again there is room for human error on both sides due to fatigue.   

There are 3 statements.  Two by Kate herself in her own words so we know there is no possibility of error there. and one statement which is a summarised interpretation by someone else of her words - where IMO there is room for error.

And of course at the time Kate had no idea that every single word she ever spoke was going to be pored over, put under a microscope and dissected at some future time by people looking to find fault.





 


It's not clear to me what was read back. Was it the written statement once printed in Portuguese or the notes? If they were notes, whose would they be? The interpreter's or the police officer's?

Quite a few people have stated that there were inaccuracies in their original statements.

But this was also the case in Russ's rog interview when the recording didn't work and they went through notes taken to establish a statement of that interview.

And that was in English - i.e., without multiple language problems.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Did the "interpreter" who was the first person called in at short notice, and the police officer making notes, understand a) her accent and b) what she may have said to express the idea of "curtains that were drawn over just  "foooosh" flew open"?

A recorded interview would have clarified all of this.

Oh so now her accent and not actual words matter, LOL, never mind

You are ignoring her own words in english in televised interviews where she said the wind caused to the curtains to open from a closed position, not just fly up with a gust, but to an open position,this is contrary to the joint tapas group statement and contrary to her first interview, that is all, the devil is in the detail as they say

Offline Heriberto Janosch

I have changed my post (that which triggered this thread?, and added 5 pics ...

If burglar means "break in with damage" the three crimes I put here are not burglaries.

http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2013/06/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-just.html


Heri
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 08:33:04 PM by Heriberto Janosch »

Redblossom

  • Guest
I have changed my post (that which triggered this thread?, and added 5 pics ...

http://espacioexterior.blogspot.com.es/2013/06/the-madeleine-mccann-abduction-just.html


Heri

why would an opportunistic and or regular burglar after goods  suddenly decide to steal a child instead of the plasma tv or credit cards? It does not make sense

Offline Heriberto Janosch

why would an opportunistic and or regular burglar after goods  suddenly decide to steal a child instead of the plasma tv or credit cards? It does not make sense

Read the bibliography about how versatile the offenders are.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Read the bibliography about how versatile the offenders are.

must admit I have never ever read that common burglars decide oh i found a child while i was looking for money or a tv or credit cards i will sell that on no problem

Sorry Heri, there is no plausible connection with common burglaries and missing Madeleine IMO

child abductions are either planned or even if opportunistic different  from anything I read part of  opportunistic or planned burglary
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 08:37:41 PM by Redblossom »

Offline Carana

Oh so now her accent and not actual words matter, LOL, never mind

You are ignoring her own words in english in televised interviews where she said the wind caused to the curtains to open from a closed position, not just fly up with a gust, but to an open position,this is contrary to the joint tapas group statement and contrary to her first interview, that is all, the devil is in the detail as they say

I don't think I'm ignoring anything.

She was in a state of panic and had obviously had little sleep, if any.

I wonder what what she was actually asked, what she said, what the "interpreter" understood (who may or may not have had that much experience), what the interpreter said to the police officer in Portuguese and what he actually wrote down, possibly first in notes. Then, there was some process of confirming/reading back to her which isn't at all clear. And then she had to sign on the dotted line in a document in Portuguese.

The point at that stage was to get the ball rolling. The police needed to know the basics; the parents needed to get more officers looking for her.