Were the previous burglaries at Ocean Club Garden related to the abduction?

[Redblossom]

Perfect.  I ask Stephen25000 if he thinks someone could have had a key, and he replies that he doesn't believe in airy fairy abductions.
This is why it is not possible to debate with these people.  I normally don't bother because I don't give a rat's ar.. to what they think.  So this has just proved my personal thoughts.  You can't debate with them.

Any key usage will have been signed for or authorised, checked on return and kept in special safes, unless you know otherwise you are directly accusing MW staff of involvement. No cleaners or other staff reported any key missing.

[Mrs. B]

Amaral thought it was possible that a key could have been used.

Yes, does her really answer the question of exactly HOW many keys there were in circulation?

If someone had gotten hold of a key & was planning to use it in a crime, do people really think they'd have complied with the regulation & signed off for it. Just ridiculous.

It was a rental apartment, there could have been any number of keys unaccounted for.

[Redblossom]

Yes, does her really answer the question of exactly HOW many keys there were in circulation?

If someone had gotten hold of a key & was planning to use it in a crime, do people really think they'd have complied with the regulation & signed off for it. Just ridiculous.

It was a rental apartment, there could have been any number of keys unaccounted for.

Thats the point, none were unaccounted for, this being a major clue, it would havebeen investigated.

[Mrs. B]

We do know though, on account of the previous burglary attempts, that those perpetrators either had keys OR had some means of entering the apartments without breaking in & damaging the doors.

ETA The whereabouts of KNOWN keys were accounted for, that doesn't exclude the possibility that there could have been OTHER keys. As I said, it was a RENTAL apartment.

[Eleanor]

We do know though, on account of the previous burglary attempts, that those perpetrators either had keys OR had some means of entering the apartments without breaking in & damaging the doors.

ETA The whereabouts of KNOWN keys were accounted for, that doesn't exclude the possibility that there could have been OTHER keys. As I said, it was a RENTAL apartment.

Obviously.  And the security concerning keys was very lackadaisical.  Not that anyone could be expected to steal a child, but the spate of burglaries should have told them something.

[Mrs. B]

Obviously.  And the security concerning keys was very lackadaisical.  Not that anyone could be expected to steal a child, but the spate of burglaries should have told them something.

At the very least, guests should have been warned to be more vigilant & security conscious, but nope, nobody told them anything.

[Redblossom]

We do know though, on account of the previous burglary attempts, that those perpetrators either had keys OR had some means of entering the apartments without breaking in & damaging the doors.

ETA The whereabouts of KNOWN keys were accounted for, that doesn't exclude the possibility that there could have been OTHER keys. As I said, it was a RENTAL apartment.

What difference does it make if it was a rental apartment? Who outside MW apart from perhaps the owner, would have the keys? Who could be implicated in your opinion outside these people? You do know the type of key involved is very different to normal keys, a keycutter would know this, thats IF he was able to make copies, whch an experienced locksmith has said would be difficult.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/notwkey.jpg&target=tlx_picebsh

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[Mrs. B]

Anyone who had access to keys could have made copies, even if copying of keys is restricted & you need to show ID, criminals still have ways & means of obtaining keys & they don't tend to announce the fact that they have them.

[Redblossom]

Obviously.  And the security concerning keys was very lackadaisical. 

Be interested to see any cite for that.

[John]

What difference does it make if it was a rental apartment? Who outside MW apart from perhaps the owner, would have the keys? Who could be implicated in your opinion outside these people? You do know the type of key involved is very different to normal keys, a keycutter would know this, thats IF he was able to make copies.

Let's face it, everyone who ever worked there or stayed there had access to keys.  No real problem to have them copied or have the odd key disappear.

I agree wholeheartedly Mrs B.  Mark Warner had a duty to warn guests to take special care and they failed abysmally.

[John]

Be interested to see any cite for that.

It is in the statements.  Any member of staff could get a key from the safe in the garage if they needed a cess to any of the apartments.

[AnneGuedes]

IF he was able to make copies, whch an experienced locksmith has said would be difficult.

No, this key could be reproduced anywhere without code in a couple of minutes. This could be why those locks aren't in use any more. I still have one though and was robbed (when at home!) by someone getting in with some bankcard.

[Mrs. B]

I know which keys they are Anne, and yes, they can be copied provided the locksmith has the correct machinery. Criminals tend to have a pretty good idea about this & even locksmiths have a price.

[Eleanor]

I deal with Rental Property on the European Continent, and I know how easy it is to get copy keys.  I do it myself on occasions, and have never been asked to prove who I am.  I also know that keys get lost by visitors, and I wouldn't know if they were crooks or not.  I generally believe them.
And then I keep a firm eye on the property just in case.  I very much doubt that The Ocean Club do that.

[Redblossom]

It is in the statements.  Any member of staff could get a key from the safe in the garage if they needed a cess to any of the apartments.

Not aware any staff could take keys in the evenings outside working hours or that any were not returned by the end of the working day. And no MW staff members refers to this happening. Unless you think its possible one of the superiors/keykeepers are suspect.Their criminal records will have all been checked too I would have thought. None of them afaiaw from the files were ever flagged up. Not saying its impossible, just that the speculation has no basis in anything apart from possibility.