The Amaral theory of what happened to Madeleine.

[DCI]

Aofie at the top of the stairs looked to her left and saw the carrier on 25 de Abril which means he was veering to his right, somewhere near Luzdoc.

Upon leaving the bar, they turned right and headed along the road for 40/50 metres. At this point, they again turned to the right and ascended a small street with stairs that give access to Rua 25 de Abril. As they were a large group (four adults and five children) they travelled apart from each other along the street with some more to the front and the others more behind. She does not remember how they were divided [who was where].
— The deponent remembers that upon reaching the top of the stairs, she looked to her left and saw a man (1) with a female child (2) in his arms, walking along the pavement of Rua 25 de Abril. He was walking in her direction at a distance of, give or take, two metres.— The deponent crossed to the other side of Rua 25 de Abril and began walking up Rua da Escola Primária in the direction of the Estrela da Luz apartment complex.
— She did not see if the referenced individual with the child descended Rua das Escadinhas or if he continued along Rua 25 de Abril.

[Benice]

Quote from: AnneGuedes on June 26, 2013, 09:45:39 PM

    No, you haven't got it right, Benice.  Why are you pretending Inspector Amaral said Mr Mcann buried Madeleine on the beach ?

You're not being honest, Benice, Inspector Amaral never made the ridiculous suggestion that Mr McCann buried a corpse on the beach. He suggested he hid. It could have been under a small boat, among the rocks, in a hole, there are many places actually that could have served for some hours (I don't believe Mr McCann did that).

I think you're splitting hairs now Anne.    Why are you excluding burial?  It's a beach FGS.   You even say ''in a hole'' yourself - that's 'burial' isn't it?     Does it matter whether Amaral thought the body was hidden by burying it on the beach, or hiding it under rocks - or whatever?  The point is -  it is his theory that Gerry took his daughter's body to the beach - concealed it - and then went back a few days later and moved it in his car.  (what car?).  Then three weeks later he moved it yet again in yet another car, to yet another place.   I've never heard anything so ridiculous.


 

[sadie]

Every bit Benice.

When thought about, and additionally with our new tools of measuring and examining images on GEarth, the whole Amaral theory is crazy

Yet another myth  hits the dust.

Two myths in one thread that are shown to be wrong

Good to be getting at the truth.

[AnneGuedes]

I think you're splitting hairs now Anne.    Why are you excluding burial?  It's a beach FGS.   You even say ''in a hole'' yourself - that's 'burial' isn't it?     Does it matter whether Amaral thought the body was hidden by burying it on the beach, or hiding it under rocks - or whatever?  The point is -  it is his theory that Gerry took his daughter's body to the beach - concealed it - and then went back a few days later and moved it in his car.  (what car?).  Then three weeks later he moved it yet again in yet another car, to yet another place.   I've never heard anything so ridiculous.

Come on, Benice, who is "splitting" actually ? Mr Amaral doesn't for a second pretend Mr McCann digged the sand and you know it. Is any bit of opportunity to ridicule Mr Amaral irresistible ?
Humans bury the dead, they don't conceal them. Bury means make a hole and then cover whatever you put in that hole.
I'm not Mr Amaral btw nor his disciple nor a fighter for his hypothesis, why do you question me as if I were ?

[icabodcrane]

Amaral's theory has more holes than swiss cheese

That is not to say,  though,  that his thesis in general   (  that the missing child died in the apartment and an abduction was subsequently staged ),    can be dismissed out of hand

[Benice]

Come on, Benice, who is "splitting" actually ? Mr Amaral doesn't for a second pretend Mr McCann digged the sand and you know it. Is any bit of opportunity to ridicule Mr Amaral irresistible ?
Humans bury the dead, they don't conceal them. Bury means make a hole and then cover whatever you put in that hole.
I'm not Mr Amaral btw nor his disciple nor a fighter for his hypothesis, why do you question me as if I were ?

Amaral doesn't say how Gerry supposedly hid a dead body on the beach Anne  - so all possible options can be considered - including burying it in the sand.    I still say you are splitting hairs. 

What do you think of his... 'body hidden on the beach and moved a few day later'..... theory?

[AnneGuedes]

Amaral doesn't say how Gerry supposedly hid a dead body on the beach Anne  - so all possible options can be considered - including burying it in the sand.    I still say you are splitting hairs. 

What do you think of his... 'body hidden on the beach and moved a few day later'..... theory?

I think I was clear on that topic, Benice. Sometimes I wonder what idea people have of corpses. Moreover if ... Nothing of that kind, definitively no.
A French woman likely adored to be pregnant but couldn't bear having more children (she had two, very happy ones it seems). So she froze them (2), right after birth. Unfortunately nobody noticed she was pregnant, not even her husband, not even her friends at the yoga. This woman never moved the frozen babies, I guess she was horrified with the idea, because actually she could have disposed of the corpses and nobody would have never known. Her husband discovered the babies when she had left for holidays and he was alone.

[DCI]

Come on, Benice, who is "splitting" actually ? Mr Amaral doesn't for a second pretend Mr McCann digged the sand and you know it. Is any bit of opportunity to ridicule Mr Amaral irresistible ?
Humans bury the dead, they don't conceal them. Bury means make a hole and then cover whatever you put in that hole.
I'm not Mr Amaral btw nor his disciple nor a fighter for his hypothesis, why do you question me as if I were ?

Of course he doesn't.

OOPS, what is this I found.

"The McCanns hid the body on the beach" DiarioMetro
 
Ruth Suárez
Published: 08:29 h. 11-09-2008
 
Gonçalo Amaral was the first inspector who coordinated the search for Madeleine, the girl who disappeared in Praia da Luz (Portugal) on May 3, 2007. In October the same year, after considering the parents of the small child, Kate and Gerry McCann, as arguidos (suspects) for having concealed the corpse of their daughter, he was removed from the investigation. In July 2008 he decided to leave the police to tell his version of what happened. The result is Maddie, the truth of the lie, published by Esquilo.
 
According to you, what happened on May 3, 2007?
 
Madeleine McCann died from accidentally falling behind the sofa in the living room of the apartment. That couch had been moved during the alleged disappearance. I think that someone discovered the body, concealed it, cleaned everything and pushed the sofa to the window.

Who?
 
The parents of Madeleine.

On what basis can you say that?
 
The dogs brought in by the British police discovered cadaver odour behind the sofa and in the bedroom of the parents of the girl. Also on the small child's toy, the clothes of Kate and in the trunk and the keys to the car that was rented later.

And how did they conceal the body without anyone seeing?
 
Yes they were seen! An Irish family saw a man pass by them with a child in his arms at 22.05, on the way to the beach. Later, the girl was identified as Maddie. But they did not realise that the man who they had seen was Gerry until they were following television and saw how the McCanns landed in the UK.

What happened?
 
The position in which Gerry held one of the twins and his way of walking were identical to those of the individual who they had seen that night.

But, 22.05 was when Kate said that the girl had disappeared and Gerry was with her…
 
The hours are unclear. The only thing certain is that the McCanns told the National Republican Guard at 22.40. So, before that, Gerry had had time to bury the body of the girl on the beach.
 
And nobody saw him there? During the night when they were already looking for the girl.

Yes, but they were looking for a girl alive, not a girl dead. In addition, I am not saying that the body remained on the beach all the time. Clearly, the first thing was to remove it from the apartment. Later they could find other solutions to hide it. Witnesses of the National Republican Guard said they had seen the McCanns directed onto the beach twice in the course of that morning. Surely they quickly found a better place.
 
How does it explain that the dogs found the smell of a corpse in the McCanns car?
 
They rented it 24 days after the disappearance. It was what was being investigated when I was removed from the case.
 
You believe that they conserved it in a freezer all that time? Where?
 
There is a journalist who says that he saw the McCanns enter a block of apartments close to the beach, in the month of June… But we do not know in which flat they were. It is a building for tourists and they passed many people.
 
And why is it the dogs did not detect the smell of a corpse on the clothes of Gerry McCann?
 
You know which clothes Gerry was wearing that night? I do not yet know it.
 
There is more information that is still missing?
 
We asked the English police for reports on the couple, if they had a nanny in the United Kingdom, if they had had some problems in their work... We never received those answers.
 
Why? Do you believe that the McCanns have high level connections?
 
I do not know. I do not want to comment on that, but it is curious how the British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, showed his support to the couple even after they were declared arguidos.

...
He even confirms the time the McCanns rang the GNR

The only thing certain is that the McCanns told the National Republican Guard at 22.40.

[Redblossom]

Amaral's theory has more holes than swiss cheese

That is not to say,  though,  that his thesis in general   (  that the missing child died in the apartment and an abduction was subsequently staged ),    can be dismissed out of hand

Of  course it cant, its the basis of MANY so called abduction cases which were anything but, happens all the time,And very much more frequently than stranger abductions of three yr olds from beds especially when on holiday

[AnneGuedes]

The only thing certain is that the McCanns told the National Republican Guard at 22.40[. So, before that, Gerry had had time to bury the body of the girl on the beach.
 

Told what ? We know the McCanns told nothing to the GNR at 22.40. Do you have the original of what appears a misleading translation ?

[Redblossom]

gnr were told at 22 40 of a missing child, the first phone call

[AnneGuedes]

I know, but
The only thing certain is that the McCanns told the National Republican Guard at 22.40
is wrong. What about the rest of that supposed interview ?

[faithlilly]

Upon leaving the bar, they turned right and headed along the road for 40/50 metres. At this point, they again turned to the right and ascended a small street with stairs that give access to Rua 25 de Abril. As they were a large group (four adults and five children) they travelled apart from each other along the street with some more to the front and the others more behind. She does not remember how they were divided [who was where].
— The deponent remembers that upon reaching the top of the stairs, she looked to her left and saw a man (1) with a female child (2) in his arms, walking along the pavement of Rua 25 de Abril. He was walking in her direction at a distance of, give or take, two metres.— The deponent crossed to the other side of Rua 25 de Abril and began walking up Rua da Escola Primária in the direction of the Estrela da Luz apartment complex.
— She did not see if the referenced individual with the child descended Rua das Escadinhas or if he continued along Rua 25 de Abril.

Your point ?

[sadie]

Of course he doesn't.

OOPS, what is this I found.

"The McCanns hid the body on the beach" DiarioMetro
 
Ruth Suárez
Published: 08:29 h. 11-09-2008
 
Gonçalo Amaral was the first inspector who coordinated the search for Madeleine, the girl who disappeared in Praia da Luz (Portugal) on May 3, 2007. In October the same year, after considering the parents of the small child, Kate and Gerry McCann, as arguidos (suspects) for having concealed the corpse of their daughter, he was removed from the investigation. In July 2008 he decided to leave the police to tell his version of what happened. The result is Maddie, the truth of the lie, published by Esquilo.
 
According to you, what happened on May 3, 2007?
 
Madeleine McCann died from accidentally falling behind the sofa in the living room of the apartment. That couch had been moved during the alleged disappearance. I think that someone discovered the body, concealed it, cleaned everything and pushed the sofa to the window.

Who?
 
The parents of Madeleine.

On what basis can you say that?
 
The dogs brought in by the British police discovered cadaver odour behind the sofa and in the bedroom of the parents of the girl. Also on the small child's toy, the clothes of Kate and in the trunk and the keys to the car that was rented later.

And how did they conceal the body without anyone seeing?
 
Yes they were seen! An Irish family saw a man pass by them with a child in his arms at 22.05, on the way to the beach. Later, the girl was identified as Maddie. But they did not realise that the man who they had seen was Gerry until they were following television and saw how the McCanns landed in the UK.

What happened?
 
The position in which Gerry held one of the twins and his way of walking were identical to those of the individual who they had seen that night.

But, 22.05 was when Kate said that the girl had disappeared and Gerry was with her…
 
The hours are unclear. The only thing certain is that the McCanns told the National Republican Guard at 22.40.   So, before that, Gerry had had time to bury the body of the girl on the beach.[/size].
 
And nobody saw him there? During the night when they were already looking for the girl.

Yes, but they were looking for a girl alive, not a girl dead. In addition, I am not saying that the body remained on the beach all the time. Clearly, the first thing was to remove it from the apartment. Later they could find other solutions to hide it. Witnesses of the National Republican Guard said they had seen the McCanns directed onto the beach twice in the course of that morning. Surely they quickly found a better place.
 
How does it explain that the dogs found the smell of a corpse in the McCanns car?
 
They rented it 24 days after the disappearance. It was what was being investigated when I was removed from the case.
 
You believe that they conserved it in a freezer all that time? Where?
 
There is a journalist who says that he saw the McCanns enter a block of apartments close to the beach, in the month of June… But we do not know in which flat they were. It is a building for tourists and they passed many people.
 
And why is it the dogs did not detect the smell of a corpse on the clothes of Gerry McCann?
 
You know which clothes Gerry was wearing that night? I do not yet know it.
 
There is more information that is still missing?
 
We asked the English police for reports on the couple, if they had a nanny in the United Kingdom, if they had had some problems in their work... We never received those answers.
 
Why? Do you believe that the McCanns have high level connections?
 
I do not know. I do not want to comment on that, but it is curious how the British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, showed his support to the couple even after they were declared arguidos.

...
He even confirms the time the McCanns rang the GNR

The only thing certain is that the McCanns told the National Republican Guard at 22.40.

Amarals words:So, before that, Gerry had had time to bury the body of the girl on the beach.

so he DID say that they had buried the body of Madeleine on the beach ... someone got that wrong !

[faithlilly]

You are quite wrong Faith

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm#p6p1611

1611 to 1614 Witness testimony of Aoife Smith taken 2007/05/26
6-Processos, Volume VI, pgs. 1611 to 1614


/SNIP/
— Upon leaving the bar, they turned right and headed along the road for 40/50 metres. At this point, they again turned to the right and ascended a small street with stairs that give access to Rua 25 de Abril. As they were a large group (four adults and five children) they travelled apart from each other along the street with some more to the front and the others more behind. She does not remember how they were divided [who was where].

— The deponent remembers that upon reaching the top of the stairs, she looked to her left and saw a man (1) with a female child (2) in his arms, walking along the pavement of Rua 25 de Abril. He was walking in her direction at a distance of, give or take, two metres /SNIP/

The steps she came up are almost opposite the street, Rua D'Escola, that Bundleman came down.  It is a doglegged junction.
THe photograph shown is the way that Aofie walked up the steps.  She was walking in a northerly direction.  As you can clearly see the road that Bundleman came down is doglegged and you cant even see the western half of that street where Bundleman came down, so for Aofie to see him. he had to turn right (towards the east and the Church


Bundleman came down keeping to the western side of Rua D'Escola.  He turned onto the pavement of Rua 25 Abril and walked only about 2 metres in front of Aoife.  This means that he had turned left and was at that moment walking in an easterly direction towards the Church and Malinkas home.  Look at the photo and you will see what I mean, about bundleman having to turn left to be near Aoife.  Had he turned right in a westerly direction, as you believe Faith, he would never have been anywhere near Aoife

The easterly direction is the most likely way he carried on, but it is possible that he might have swung a little to the right afterpassing Aofie and gone down the very steps that Aofie and the Smiths came up.  There were other members of the party behind Aofie, so I would have expected them to have noticed him.  Seems they didn't.  Therefore he almost certainly went East towards the Church and Malinkas


Most unlikely that he would have changed his direction altogether and gone west, cos had any one of that party looked back, they would have seen him do that.

Sorry Faith, but I think your theory about him going west to an empty house is a goner, especially if you are intimating that bundleman was Gerry ... cos if it was Gerry, he hadn't got a second to waste .... Had he?


Another myth hits the dust!



Additionally, from various witnesses we know that there was no sweaty Gerry, or ruffled Gerry at the table, and that he was there, at the table, all the pertinent time

The second photograph in link shows exactly where Aofie was when she saw the carrier. If Aofie looked to her left from that point as she says the carrier must have been heading not to the corner that leads to the church but the corner that leads past Luzdoc and back up Rua 25 Abril.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/imagelib/sitebuilder/misc/show_image.html?linkedwidth=actual&linkpath=http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/smith4.jpg&target=tlx_pic8n0f