Could Madeleines remains have been deposited in a trolley bin?

[Mrs. B]

I'm not ridiculing Portugal, Anne. I just don't think you are you the official spokesperson for the Portuguese rubbish collection authority. I simply don't believe that rubbish collection in Portugal is so haphazardly & irresponsibly run as you describe. I'm not talking recycling, I'm talking hazardous refuse which all authorities check for.

But I have ways of checking that out with friends so never mind.

No, & you don't put full bins on the side & bins are generally quite FULL at 10 pm in holiday resorts.

I don't know why the PJ didn't stop the rubbish collection that night, could it be for the same reason they didn't stop vehicles crossing the border to Spain, or put checks at the airport until it was far too late?

[John]

Sorry John, but your precepts and observations are based on km telling the truth. Something which you do not know to be a fact.

Secondly, you do not know whether Madeleine was street savvy, that is supposition, and as an ex-policeman I believe, you should know that.

As to the so called sightings they contradict each other and no amount of prevaricating will change that.

Finally, as an ex-policeman you will be fully aware of the use and reliability of dogs, so why are you ignoring the indications they gave ?

My observation would be that if it was a set-up then the McCanns would have locked the patio door.  Evidence is that they didn't.  Additionally if it was their intention to attribute the blame to a third person in a situation with an unlocked patio door then finding the door ajar or open would have been the ideal scenario.  Again it wasn't.

The evidence is that Madeleine was an intelligent youngster.  Consequently there is no reason to suspect she was anything less than street savvy.

The dog alerts are meaningless as the entire exercise was a charade.  Grime himself admits that without positive forensic evidence the dogs might as well never have been there.

[DCI]

For sanitation reasons? But OK to throw dead children in?

If that's the way you treat rubbish in Portugal, somebody should tell the EU, it's against environmental policy to let people throw hazardous material in bins (but people still do) which is why rubbish plants have staff.

The bins were the same size as we have here, Anne, so don't even go there, I have seen them. You'd have to jump in them to hide something, I know this very well, as my OH happened to drop his keys in one of those bins some years ago.

Didn't Amaral, throw his childrens dog, in a bin? Very caring father.

[AnneGuedes]

I'm not ridiculing Portugal, Anne. I just don't think you are you the official spokesperson for the Portuguese rubbish collection authority. I simply don't believe that rubbish collection in Portugal is so haphazardly & irresponsibly run as you describe. I'm not talking recycling, I'm talking hazardous refuse which all authorities check for.

But I have ways of checking that out with friends so never mind.

No, & you don't put full bins on the side & bins are generally quite FULL at 10 pm in holiday resorts.

I don't know why the PJ didn't stop the rubbish collection that night, could it be for the same reason they didn't stop vehicles crossing the border to Spain, or put checks at the airport until it was far too late?

You seem to suggest that either I lied and every bin is checked or "rubbish collection in Portugal is haphazardly & irresponsibly run".
The experts didn't suggest that.
Do the workers in garbage collection, in the UK, inspect every bin before putting it on the truck ?
They don't do it in France. No time for that ! In Paris, the most visited place of the planet, the trucks pass early morning, too late to disturb people just coming back from bars etc., but not late enough to disturb people leaving for work. Everything is incinerated a few hours later (in Paris and île de France).

[Mrs. B]

No, I'm not saying you lied but doubt that you are that well informed about the actual process, unless of course you work in the field of refuse collection. It's probably best to ask someone who lives in the UK to answer questions about rubbish collection there. I'm quite confident they follow EU guidelines on hazardous waste though, it would be most costly & very irresponsible of them not to.

[AnneGuedes]

The dog alerts are meaningless as the entire exercise was a charade.  Grime himself admits that without positive forensic evidence the dogs might as well never have been there.

If you're right, John, then Prof Harrison is an irresponsible person. I confess that, reading his various reports and observations, I find it difficult to admit.
As they removed the rogatory interviews of the TP7 and the files about the UK paedophiles residents in the Algarve, they could remove the "meaningless" (to cite you !) reports on the dogs or found an explanation for the amazing alerts exclusive of the 5A.
If there was evidence the dogs were wrong, I would bet Madeleine found her fate not far from the flat, looking for dad and mum.

[Mrs. B]

Didn't Amaral, throw his childrens dog, in a bin? Very caring father.

That'd be classed as a public health risk & strictly against the law in most countries.

[DCI]

If you're right, John, then Prof Harrison is an irresponsible person. I confess that, reading his various reports and observations, I find it difficult to admit.
As they removed the rogatory interviews of the TP7 and the files about the UK paedophiles residents in the Algarve, they could remove the "meaningless" (to cite you !) reports on the dogs or found an explanation for the amazing alerts exclusive of the 5A.
If there was evidence the dogs were wrong, I would bet Madeleine found her fate not far from the flat, looking for dad and mum.

That blows Amarals theory, that Madeliene fell from the sofa out then. Also the dogs findings in 5A   

[John]

I agree with you, she would never have closed the door. But I don't think she would have left this way. I think she possibly left through the main door, easy to open from the inside. I agree also she didn't go far and I very much doubt she would have crossed the car park full of shadows that gave the creeps to Rachael.

With respect I disagree Anne for the very simple reason is that a child will go to the light and not the dark.  There was a light on in the lounge and there would have been light coming in the patio door.  There would also be sound coming from that direction.

[AnneGuedes]

No, I'm not saying you lied but doubt that you are that well informed about the actual process, unless of course you work in the field of refuse collection. It's probably best to ask someone who lives in the UK to answer questions about rubbish collection there. I'm quite confident they follow EU guidelines on hazardous waste though, it would be most costly & very irresponsible of them not to.

I lecture in a university and not about urban solid residues as they're called in Portuguese. I called the persons in charge in the municipality, Mrs B. I already knew what happened to bins they pick up on the street, I can see it from my balcony, but I didn't know what happened after and if there was some kind of selection.

[Mrs. B]

Ah, so YOU didn't know what happened with the rubbish after it was collected, but Gerry McCann is supposed to have known that it wouldn't be checked? If I didn't know better, I'd think you were arguing against your own theory here.

[AnneGuedes]

Ah, so YOU didn't know what happened with the rubbish after it was collected, but Gerry McCann is supposed to have known that it wouldn't be checked? If I didn't know better, I'd think you were arguing against your own theory here.

Please, Mrs B, leave Mr McCann aside from this. This is only a possibility, not reality. Supposing X did x, doesn't make X do x. If... the remains were disposed of this way, whoever did it likely had no knowledge about the solid residues processing. Whoever did it took a chance, was there something to loose ?

[Lace]

I cannot for one minute imagine Gerry McCann dumping Madeleine in a bin.   

Firstly because it is heartless thing to do to your child.

Secondly because it was much too risky,   the bins would be the first place people would look.

[AnneGuedes]

I cannot for one minute imagine Gerry McCann dumping Madeleine in a bin.   

Firstly because it is heartless thing to do to your child.

Secondly because it was much too risky,   the bins would be the first place people would look.

Lace, whoever eventually did this wouldn't have done it to a child.
Your secondly is wrong : nobody looked ! Some did the following day, too late. The PJ even to one of the two landfills in the Algarve, too late.

[Lace]

Lace, whoever eventually did this wouldn't have done it to a child.
Your secondly is wrong : nobody looked ! Some did the following day, too late. The PJ even to one of the two landfills in the Algarve, too late.

Crowds were on the beach searching Anne,  are you telling me no one would have thought to look in the bins?