Author Topic: Portuguese reaction to the SY announcement.  (Read 13979 times)

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AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Portuguese reaction to the SY announcement.
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2013, 10:15:09 PM »
Yes, I was at home in bed that Sunday morning back in 1997 when my sister rushed into say that Princess Diana had been killed.  I was shocked and was actually brought to tears when I saw the wreath on her coffin with the note saying "Mummy".  It brought it home that two young boys had lost their mother in tragic circumstances.

I heard the first news reports of Madeleine's abduction early on 4 May and was shocked, upset and filled with compassion for her family.
I reckon you don't remember where you were in Madeleine case.
In Lady Diana case, I was having breakfast in Jodhpur, alone because my son was sick.
I hope you do believe she died in a car accident with Mr Dodi ?.

Offline Carana

Re: Portuguese reaction to the SY announcement.
« Reply #46 on: July 08, 2013, 10:16:28 AM »
If I recall, the Portuguese previously stated that one of the reasons why the investigation was curtailed was because of pressure which had been brought upon them to close the case.  It was also hinted at that there was political pressure brought upon the Portuguese to bring the enquiry to an end.

So what's changed?

There are laws governing how long an investigation can remain open in Portugal. I'm not sure what the timeframes are now as the laws keep changing. The timeframe (measured in months) depended on a) the nature of the crime and b) whether or not there were arguidos / people under house arrest. From memory, there can (or could) be a 2-month extension if it's considered crucial.

A two-edged sword in a way, in my view. The fact of creating time pressure to conclude an investigation gets the process moving and means that arguidos aren't kept in limbo for years. On the other hand, that same pressure could lead to hasty conclusions.

Offline sadie

Re: Portuguese reaction to the SY announcement.
« Reply #47 on: July 08, 2013, 10:51:00 AM »
Rui Pedro was abducted in 1998

About 2 years ago, there was a flurry of activity and his case came to Court.  The flurry, according to reports, was because the period of investigation was closing.

At a guess that corresponds to 15 years.  So perhaps the maximum period of Investigation in PT is 15 years?




Maybe someone knows if my conjectures are right?

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Portuguese reaction to the SY announcement.
« Reply #48 on: July 08, 2013, 11:05:36 AM »
There are laws governing how long an investigation can remain open in Portugal. I'm not sure what the timeframes are now as the laws keep changing. The timeframe (measured in months) depended on a) the nature of the crime and b) whether or not there were arguidos / people under house arrest. From memory, there can (or could) be a 2-month extension if it's considered crucial.

A two-edged sword in a way, in my view. The fact of creating time pressure to conclude an investigation gets the process moving and means that arguidos aren't kept in limbo for years. On the other hand, that same pressure could lead to hasty conclusions.
Arguidos and assistants in the investigation (a statute the McCanns asked for, were granted and then denied by the PGR as being incompatible with the arguido one) can require the opening of an "instrucção", a contradictory inquiry, if they don't agree with the shelving of the investigation, whatever was the reason for shelving.
Meanwhile it should be reminded that the arguidos have other rights apart silence. They've participation rights because their statute makes them "subjects of the process" : a right of hearings, of providing evidence, of requiring police interventions and of appealing.
The McCanns made no use of those rights, except for silence.

Offline sadie

Re: Portuguese reaction to the SY announcement.
« Reply #49 on: July 09, 2013, 01:02:16 AM »
Arguidos and assistants in the investigation (a statute the McCanns asked for, were granted and then denied by the PGR as being incompatible with the arguido one) can require the opening of an "instrucção", a contradictory inquiry, if they don't agree with the shelving of the investigation, whatever was the reason for shelving.
Meanwhile it should be reminded that the arguidos have other rights apart silence. They've participation rights because their statute makes them "subjects of the process" : a right of hearings, of providing evidence, of requiring police interventions and of appealing.
The McCanns made no use of those rights, except for silence.
Maybe they they no longer trust the PT legal system.  I don't.   

Maybe they have left it in the hands of SY ?

Seems a very wise decision to me.

Offline Luz

Re: Portuguese reaction to the SY announcement.
« Reply #50 on: July 09, 2013, 03:57:56 PM »
Well it seems some of the Portuguese are a bit peeved by SY's  intentions.

Why SHOULD we help find Maddie, ask Portugal's police chiefs as they ridicule Scotland Yard claims of new leads on missing girl.
> Met Police made upbeat announcement about new leads on Thursday
> Attorney General has since poured scorn on Met investigation
> David Cameron welcomed the inquiry as the case 'still shocks the nation'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2357144/Madeleine-McCann-Why-SHOULD-help-missing-Maddie-ask-Portugals-police-chiefs.html

It doesn't help when xenophobia creeps into the headlines or comments either. It will be more likely for cooperation to be refused point blank.


Excuse the caps...

BULLSHIT

The General Attorney was the only entity questioned by Lusa, the national news agency and they only responded that no formal request had been received from UK. Furthermore, when questioned about the expansion of the investigation by SY, they clarified that SY had no jurisdiction in Portugal, and any investigation would have to be conducted by portuguese agents, if an european cooperation request was presented and approved.

Offline Carana

Re: Portuguese reaction to the SY announcement.
« Reply #51 on: July 09, 2013, 05:25:33 PM »

Excuse the caps...

BULLSHIT

The General Attorney was the only entity questioned by Lusa, the national news agency and they only responded that no formal request had been received from UK. Furthermore, when questioned about the expansion of the investigation by SY, they clarified that SY had no jurisdiction in Portugal, and any investigation would have to be conducted by portuguese agents, if an european cooperation request was presented and approved.


Well, that would indeed seem to be the bottom line - whatever spin the tabloids of either country choose to sell more media advertising.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Portuguese reaction to the SY announcement.
« Reply #52 on: July 12, 2013, 08:24:06 PM »
so, the express newspaper explained today what the problem is and it aint no portuguese saying they wont cooperate or refusing to hand over anything blah blah and blah,as the papers have been printing all week, including the totally morally defunct right wing xenophobic irresponsible  daily (hate) mail printing that the portuguese ag said *why should we help?* I wonder  though what the headline here actually MEANS

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/414253/Red-tape-won-t-delay-hunt-for-Madeleine-say-McCanns

Red tape won’t delay hunt for Madeleine say McCanns

THE parents of Madeleine McCann say they have “absolute faith” in the new investigation into their missing daughter despite reports the Europe-wide inquiry is already getting bogged down in red tape

By: Mark ReynoldsPublished: Fri, July 12, 2013
  0Comments
Polive believe Madeleine may still be alive

Eight days after Scotland Yard announced that officers were moving from review stage of the case to a full-blown investigation, Kate and Gerry McCann remain hopeful of a breakthrough.

Their declaration came after it was revealed that a vital Letter of Request, which must be sent to the Portuguese authorities, has still not been delivered.

Without it, aspects of the investigation could be delayed due to lack of formal approval from the relevant authorities there.

Last night the Crown Prosecution Service, which is responsible for delivering the letter to the Portuguese judicial bodies, said its officials were still drawing up the complex legal document.

A CPS spokesman said: “Any legal communication between different jurisdictions requires extremely careful correspondence, including appropriate translations.

“We are liaising with the Portuguese authorities and will send the formal Letter of Request as soon as possible.”

The spokesman said police had fully consulted with the CPS before Scotland Yard went public with its announcement of a full-blown investigation last week.

Kate & Gerry McCann have expressed total support for the Scotland Yard investigation

It is a positive step in our hunt for Madeleine that our understanding of the evidence has enabled us to shift from review to investigation
DCI Andy Redwood
A spokesman for the Metropolitan Police declined to comment.
But Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for the McCanns, said: “Kate and Gerry will not be giving a running commentary on every part of this process. But they have absolute faith in the work Scotland Yard are doing.”

Senior Met Police officers from Operation Grange, the inquiry into Madeleine’s disappearance, are aware of the technical and bureaucratic complexities which face them. But they also remain optimistic of making progress in the case.

They have told how they believe Madeleine may still be alive and urged the public to continue to help search for her.

Announcing the full-blown investigation, Det Chief Inspector Andy Redwood, head of Operation Grange, said: “It is a positive step in our hunt for Madeleine that our understanding of the evidence has enabled us to shift from review to investigation.”

He added: “We, and the Portuguese authorities, remain completely committed to finding out what happened to Madeleine, and everything we do is utterly focused on her best interests.

“We continue to believe that there is a possibility that Madeleine is alive.” Officers need all relevant documents correctly in place to ensure full co-operation between officials here and abroad, and to avoid bureaucratic hitches.

International criminal investigations in Europe are governed by two “mutual assistance” treaties, one dating back to 1959 and the other from 2000.

An age progressed photo of Maddy, as she is beleived to look on the approach to her ninth birthday

The conventions set out procedures for matters such as the exchange of legal papers, holding hearings by video-link, the control of undercover officers, phone taps and interception of email and other communications.

Police revealed they have identified 38 “persons of interest” so far – 12 of whom are British nationals who were in Portugal at the time Madeleine vanished, and are currently thought to be in Portugal or the UK.

The others on the list are believed to be in Portugal, the UK or three other unnamed European countries.

Madeleine – who would now be 10 years old – went missing from a holiday apartment in Praia da Luz on the Algarve on May 3, 2007.

The Portuguese investigation is officially closed but the authorities there are backing the new Scotland Yard inquiry. Officers from both countries will work together in pursuing fresh leads.

A team of 37 Met Police officers and staff are working on the case.

So far the team has gathered 30,500 documents and generated 3,800 “actions” they need to tackle.

They are about two-thirds of the way through their review and so far have been to Portugal 16 times.

Operation Grange was launched in May 2011 after the McCanns, both 45, and from Rothley, Leics, appealed directly to Prime Minister David Cameron for help from Scotland Yard.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 08:33:01 PM by Redblossom »

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Portuguese reaction to the SY announcement.
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2013, 09:26:59 PM »
I wonder  though what the headline here actually MEANS

I wonder too. The rest is lots of numbers trying to substantiate the blah blah blah.
Just remember the rogatory letter Portugal > UK took almost 5 months, due to the obvious reluctance of the HO.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Portuguese reaction to the SY announcement.
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2013, 09:31:10 PM »
I wonder too. The rest is lots of numbers trying to substantiate the blah blah blah.
Just remember the rogatory letter Portugal > UK took almost 5 months, due to the obvious reluctance of the HO.
no sense of urgency then by the british and no sense of urgency now,the cps which is the euivqlent to the portugal public prosecutor was there in april, three months ago!!!! so obviously it is NOT about finding Madeleine imo and never has been

oh and  not forgetting the no sense of urgency from many so called * witnesses* who took months and years to come forward,  sad

« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 09:37:19 PM by Redblossom »