Author Topic: The archiving report ...  (Read 22409 times)

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Rachel Granada

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Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2013, 08:16:15 PM »
Not according to real judges:

"Where Amaral differs from the Prosecutors who wrote the dispatch, is in the logical, police-work-related and investigative interpretation that he [Amaral] makes of those facts."

We need,  to stress the following: the facts that led to the applicants' constitution as arguidos within the inquiry were later on not sufficiently valued by the Public Ministry's Prosecutors to lead to a criminal accusation, but those very same facts, seen from a different angle, may lead to a different conclusion from that of the prosecutors.

Once again i ask if you are a Judge?

Once again I ask if the fridge business was a valid interpretation of the facts.

Offline Albertini

Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2013, 08:16:50 PM »
Nice swerve!  Answer the question por favour - and please don't try to alter any meanings by bolding!

It was by Gerry wasn't it, with Sandra i think.

The point stands the Judge's, validated it. End of.

I'm not a Judge.

Meanings are determined by the words used not by how they are bolded to explain to a poster what the words he or she has written actually mean.

Offline Albertini

Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2013, 08:17:23 PM »
Once again I ask if the fridge business was a valid interpretation of the facts.

Well quite clearly, yes according to the Judges! D'uh!

Offline Mo Stache

Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2013, 08:20:35 PM »
Well quite clearly, yes according to the Judges! D'uh!
I'm sorry but................ ROFL.  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* oh dear.....

Offline DCI

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Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2013, 08:28:05 PM »
Was Magalhaes e Menezes in court, Anne?

No he wasn't in court, Rachel. He used a video link. I'm surprised Anne didn't mention it!

Kate's 500 Mile Cycle Challenge

https://www.justgiving.com/KateMcCann/

Offline Albertini

Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2013, 09:09:00 PM »
I'm sorry but................ ROFL.  @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* @)(++(* oh dear.....

I know! What a silly question from Rachel!

Offline Mo Stache

Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2013, 09:27:11 PM »
I know! What a silly question from Rachel!
Contraire. But you continue along your deluded path..........

Offline Mo Stache

Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2013, 08:44:17 AM »
Lets exam this 'Judge gave Amarals thesis equal status' malarkey. It seems that some people use selective quotes to try prove a point when they forget that those selected statements read in context doesn't necessarily carry the same meaning as what the person using the out of context statements are claiming.

We have the case of a missing child and then we have the issue of the book that was written on the case.

The judges comment stems from the court case in which Amaral was being sued for libel; his theory that the parents are responsible for Madeleine’s death and concealment of her body.

The entire 'tone' of the court proceedings was to establish if Amaral had the right to express his views, which is not the same as determining whether his theory was correct. That was clearly demonstrated by the so called facts he stated in the book which were contrary to the facts in the police files. Take the interpretation of the forensic reports as an example.

The court case was based on whether Amaral had the right to freely express his opinion. And whether that freedom overruled the right of the McCann's being libelled.

The difficulty lies in the fact that the Portuguese and English (UK) law differ in their approach to libel laws. While you can’t publish the book in the UK because it breaches libel laws, it is allowed in Portugal under freedom of expression where it seems libel takes second place to an individual’s right to have ones reputation protected against harm. In other words being called or indirectly labelled a child murderer without evidence, which would stand up in a court of law, harms ones reputation.

Taking into context the reason for court case against Amarals book, it is clear that the judges expressed their ruling on the basis that Amaral had as much right to state his theory as did the Attorney General or any other whose professional view WAS based on fact; ruling not based on factual correctness of the theory but the right to express himself. The equality demonstrated on grounds of right of expression and not any other grounds.

In summary: The judge made a ruling on the issue of Amaral being able to exercise his right of expression/freedom of expression, but this DOES NOT VALIDATE THE CONTENT of the theory but mealy the principle that he was allowed to express that theory. In this context (as it was implied in the first instance). The expression/the right to voice his theory carried as much weights as any other, but it does not imply that the contents of that theory is correct or has any equal weight to any other.     

Conclusion: It is therefore incorrect to claim the judges said Amarals theory holds as much weight as any others.


 



Offline Mo Stache

Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #53 on: July 31, 2013, 08:52:25 AM »
Says the man who has not offered one single explanation as to what the failure to demonstrate their innocence line is in there for.

Can you tell me what the prosecutor meant, and please dont use the word "idiot" again, because that is a little embarrasing when you factor in who validated his comments.

Had the McCann's and their friends fully co-operated with Rebelo and the investigation their innocence may well have been established.

What motive could they have for not helping the investigation:

a) find their daughter
b) Demonstrating to the investigation their innocence

There was no guarantee that after the McCann's had demonstrated their innocence that they would be treated as such. Ask those who demonstrated their innocence in Portugal and still where found guilty of some crime they never committed and jailed.
Portugal has an appalling record of human rights violations regarding wrongful imprisonment.


 

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #54 on: July 31, 2013, 08:54:09 AM »
Lets exam this 'Judge gave Amarals thesis equal status' malarkey. It seems that some people use selective quotes to try prove a point when they forget that those selected statements read in context doesn't necessarily carry the same meaning as what the person using the out of context statements are claiming.

We have the case of a missing child and then we have the issue of the book that was written on the case.

The judges comment stems from the court case in which Amaral was being sued for libel; his theory that the parents are responsible for Madeleine’s death and concealment of her body.

The entire 'tone' of the court proceedings was to establish if Amaral had the right to express his views, which is not the same as determining whether his theory was correct. That was clearly demonstrated by the so called facts he stated in the book which were contrary to the facts in the police files. Take the interpretation of the forensic reports as an example.

The court case was based on whether Amaral had the right to freely express his opinion. And whether that freedom overruled the right of the McCann's being libelled.

The difficulty lies in the fact that the Portuguese and English (UK) law differ in their approach to libel laws. While you can’t publish the book in the UK because it breaches libel laws, it is allowed in Portugal under freedom of expression where it seems libel takes second place to an individual’s right to have ones reputation protected against harm. In other words being called or indirectly labelled a child murderer without evidence, which would stand up in a court of law, harms ones reputation.

Taking into context the reason for court case against Amarals book, it is clear that the judges expressed their ruling on the basis that Amaral had as much right to state his theory as did the Attorney General or any other whose professional view WAS based on fact; ruling not based on factual correctness of the theory but the right to express himself. The equality demonstrated on grounds of right of expression and not any other grounds.

In summary: The judge made a ruling on the issue of Amaral being able to exercise his right of expression/freedom of expression, but this DOES NOT VALIDATE THE CONTENT of the theory but mealy the principle that he was allowed to express that theory. In this context (as it was implied in the first instance). The expression/the right to voice his theory carried as much weights as any other, but it does not imply that the contents of that theory is correct or has any equal weight to any other.     

Conclusion: It is therefore incorrect to claim the judges said Amarals theory holds as much weight as any others.


 

By that logic would hold for a thesis of abduction as well.

Offline Mo Stache

Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #55 on: July 31, 2013, 09:15:17 AM »
By that logic would hold for a thesis of abduction as well.
Amarals thesis does not support the abduction angle.

stephen25000

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Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #56 on: July 31, 2013, 09:19:40 AM »
Amarals thesis does not support the abduction angle.

I am well aware of that.

As it stands then no theory has credence over another.

Again courtesy of the CFO, Madeleine's disappearance stands as 'type of crime unknown' and nothing of any consequence appears to lie on the horizon to change that.


Offline Benice

Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #57 on: July 31, 2013, 09:38:02 AM »
Lets exam this 'Judge gave Amarals thesis equal status' malarkey. It seems that some people use selective quotes to try prove a point when they forget that those selected statements read in context doesn't necessarily carry the same meaning as what the person using the out of context statements are claiming.

We have the case of a missing child and then we have the issue of the book that was written on the case.

The judges comment stems from the court case in which Amaral was being sued for libel; his theory that the parents are responsible for Madeleine’s death and concealment of her body.

The entire 'tone' of the court proceedings was to establish if Amaral had the right to express his views, which is not the same as determining whether his theory was correct. That was clearly demonstrated by the so called facts he stated in the book which were contrary to the facts in the police files. Take the interpretation of the forensic reports as an example.

The court case was based on whether Amaral had the right to freely express his opinion. And whether that freedom overruled the right of the McCann's being libelled.

The difficulty lies in the fact that the Portuguese and English (UK) law differ in their approach to libel laws. While you can’t publish the book in the UK because it breaches libel laws, it is allowed in Portugal under freedom of expression where it seems libel takes second place to an individual’s right to have ones reputation protected against harm. In other words being called or indirectly labelled a child murderer without evidence, which would stand up in a court of law, harms ones reputation.

Taking into context the reason for court case against Amarals book, it is clear that the judges expressed their ruling on the basis that Amaral had as much right to state his theory as did the Attorney General or any other whose professional view WAS based on fact; ruling not based on factual correctness of the theory but the right to express himself. The equality demonstrated on grounds of right of expression and not any other grounds.

In summary: The judge made a ruling on the issue of Amaral being able to exercise his right of expression/freedom of expression, but this DOES NOT VALIDATE THE CONTENT of the theory but mealy the principle that he was allowed to express that theory. In this context (as it was implied in the first instance). The expression/the right to voice his theory carried as much weights as any other, but it does not imply that the contents of that theory is correct or has any equal weight to any other.     

Conclusion: It is therefore incorrect to claim the judges said Amarals theory holds as much weight as any others.


 

An excellent post Mo. 

 8@??)( 8@??)(
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Mo Stache

Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #58 on: July 31, 2013, 09:38:06 AM »
I am well aware of that.

As it stands then no theory has credence over another.

Again courtesy of the CFO, Madeleine's disappearance stands as 'type of crime unknown' and nothing of any consequence appears to lie on the horizon to change that.
It would depend on your definition of theory.

Abstract reasoning; speculation.
An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.
A belief or principle that guides action or assists comprehension or judgment.
An ideal or hypothetical situation.
A concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena.

I would go as far as to say, there are more facts/forensic evidence that doesn't support Amarals 'death' theory.

One can't eliminate the presents of an abductor (forensic evidence) because of the contaminated crime scene but one can eliminate the presents of cadaver/death because there is no forensic evidence to support the dog alerts.

Offline Albertini

Re: The archiving report ...
« Reply #59 on: July 31, 2013, 09:42:27 AM »
There was no guarantee that after the McCann's had demonstrated their innocence that they would be treated as such. Ask those who demonstrated their innocence in Portugal and still where found guilty of some crime they never committed and jailed.
Portugal has an appalling record of human rights violations regarding wrongful imprisonment.

Absolute hogwash.

This is Portugal, not Zimbabwe.

This case would have had to go before a court. It would have been perhaps the most famous trial in the world since OJ Simpson.

Every detail and each piece of evidence would have been thoroughly examined.

To even suggest that any attempt to fit them up and to get it through a court, on a case of this magnitutde is ludicrous.

You could argue the same point in every country in the civilised world (including the UK) where miscarriages of Justice have taken place.

You cannot use rare examples of misfeasance as a reason for not co-operating in the official police investigation.