The Felicia Cabrita story about the 14 bottles of wine.

[stephen25000]

So you cannot answer the points made and simply retaliate by calling the post rubbish. I am sure people will be able to draw their own conclusions from that failure on your part.

And of course the bottom line remains that your opinion matters not a jot because it is not the opinion of the Prosecutor in Portugal who had far more access to files and witnesses than you have and who concluded that the McCanns did NOT do as you claim. That there was no case to answer for neglect or abandoning their children and that the McCanns had in place a perfectly sound (even if not perfect) system of regularly checking on the children.

I know whose opinion matters most to me and it is not yours.

Unfortunately you choose to ignore the truth.

The mccanns put their wining and dining before childcare.

The statement was by one waiter, when we know there were others there as well. Where are their statements ?

To rely on one is insufficient. Where is Jose Baptista's ?

They consumed drinks from the bar. Quantities, not determined

The newspaper is a source of information. Would you care to prove the higher quantities mentioned are a lie ?

[Carana]

The Mccanns drinking habits are a matter of record and given by witness statements by the waiters serving them.

I have provided a link to the Daily Mail article before which summarizes some of those.

Whatever excuses are given , the effects of alcohol consumption are well known.

What link?

[Mo Stache]

There are so many examples of anti McCanns preferring to believe the media rather than the PJ files.

It does them no credit at all to be seen as naively believing what newspapers tell them.

It makes them look extremely silly in fact.

Yes, along with selective quotes taken from the files. 

[AnneGuedes]

A bit of a serious blunder for an investigative journalist, though, one that just happened to reinforce anti-British sentiment.

And as it was repeated ad nauseum, it became a troo fact that they were blind drunk with all the negative implications that that entailed.

It is not rare to see drunk British people in the Algarve or elsewhere (wine is cheap). That certainly doesn't mean all British drink too much ! There's absolutely no nickname referring to exaggerate drinking. I never heard someone arguing the McCanns were drunk as an explanation of the disappearance of Madeleine. I can't see how actually.

[gilet]

Unfortunately you choose to ignore the truth.

The mccanns put their wining and dining before childcare.

The statement was by one waiter, when we know there were others there as well. Where are their statements ?

To rely on one is insufficient.

They consumed drinks from the bar. Quantities, not determined

The newspaper is a source of information. Would you care to prove the higher quantities mentioned are a lie ?

The waiter is a direct witness. His evidence is factual.

You are offering a news report by someone who was not a witness and the speculation about other waiters possibly saying something different.

However you are not actually providing any actual evidence of your claims.

And you are now adding speculation that they went to a bar which is not evidenced anywhere in the files.

Your unevidenced claims about a bar, reliance on news journalists who were clutching at any potential story and nasty speculation is not going to persuade anyone that you are telling the truth.  Your own news story even tells us that you are completely and utterly wrong. How stupid does that make you look?

Till you provide some actual evidence rather than your constant repetition of your opinions then I will stick to the facts that we know exist.

The misinterpretation by some clueless journalist of that summation of wine and water consumption that evening has been shown to be the source of the myth that you are unwilling to face up to.

[stephen25000]

The waiter is a direct witness. His evidence is factual.

You are offering a news report by someone who was not a witness and the speculation about other waiters possibly saying something different.

However you are not actually providing any actual evidence of your claims.

And you are now adding speculation that they went to a bar which is not evidenced anywhere in the files.

Your unevidenced claims about a bar, reliance on news journalists who were clutching at any potential story and nasty speculation is not going to persuade anyone that you are telling the truth.  Your own news story even tells us that you are completely and utterly wrong. How stupid does that make you look?

Till you provide some actual evidence rather than your constant repetition of your opinions then I will stick to the facts that we know exist.

The misinterpretation by some clueless journalist of that summation of wine and water consumption that evening has been shown to be the source of the myth that you are unwilling to face up to.

Partly deleted.

'The witness served almond bitters to all. He remembers that this happened on Wednesday. He does not remember if they had more after-dinner drinks. He does remember that on Wednesday, certain elements of the group got up, with their after-dinner drinks, and headed to the bar and stayed there until about 00H00/00H10. This was the only night where the group elements were in the bar after closing. He also remembers that they would normally be the last clients to leave. Wednesday was the last night they were at the bar after dinner.'

I presume at the bar they were exchanging pleasantries ?

Did you not read this ?

What of the other waiters, such as Jose Baptista, where is his statement ?

To rely on one statement is insufficient, but you choose to ignore that.

[Carana]

Sadie.

This issue has been dealt with repeatedly, on here and elsewhere.

Once again here's the link to the mail article which some prefer to ignore.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-491693/Portuguese-police-Were-Kate-Gerry-drunk-night-Madeleine-vanished.html

On the night in question they were up to the 4 th bottle.

on other nights they consumed as a group a lot more, not counting any drinks they had individually before arriving at the Bar.

Like I've said many times before, socializing  came first.

Leaks from inside the police investigation suggested the so-called Tapas Nine ordered daiquiris, martinis and beers before dinner, downed up to 14 bottles of wine with their meal, and usually enjoyed almond liqueur afterwards.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-491693/Portuguese-police-Were-Kate-Gerry-drunk-night-Madeleine-vanished.html#ixzz2bNp20kzp
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


The Mail is repeating the PJ myth of "downing 14 bottles". Perhaps that's Felicia's source as well then.

Some may well have had an apéritif before their meal arrived. Or an after-dinner liqueur. The way it's phrased makes it sound as if they downed several each plus 14 bottles.

They did go to the Tapas bar on the Wednesday for a liqueur. They've said they did, but it appears to be an exception.

[gilet]

'The witness served almond bitters to all. He remembers that this happened on Wednesday. He does not remember if they had more after-dinner drinks. He does remember that on Wednesday, certain elements of the group got up, with their after-dinner drinks, and headed to the bar and stayed there until about 00H00/00H10. This was the only night where the group elements were in the bar after closing. He also remembers that they would normally be the last clients to leave. Wednesday was the last night they were at the bar after dinner.'

I presume at the bar they were exchanging pleasantries ?

Did you not read this ?

What of the other waiters, such as Jose Baptista, where is his statement ?

To rely on one statement is insufficient, but you choose to ignore that.

As for the statement you post, yes I have read it previously.

But unlike you I don't guess about things. I can see that they took their after dinner drinks with them to sit and relax in the bar. It is something I have done myself very frequently. I presume they then drank those drinks as I would have done. There is no indication they bought any more, just your nasty speculation as to that happening. 

When you provide some evidence for your what you are saying then we might be able to understand why you are making these speculative claims.

[Lace]

Why do you keep harping on about the McCann's having a meal and a drink?

They have said they regret leaving the children, it is something they will have  to live with for the rest of their lives.

What more do you want?

That does not mean they are guilty of hiding Madeleine's body.   SY have said they are not suspects.

Drink or no drink that is the facts.

[Carana]

Of the whole group Madeleine's father was without doubt the most noticeable person as he was the most talkative, very pleasant and with a nice manner. In this respect the whole group showed a pleasant friendliness.

They would arrive for dinner according to daily bookings which they did themselves at the reception, he remembers the bookings were always made for 20.30 or 21.00. This booking could be made on the same day until 16.00, it was necessary to show proof of accommodation as well as the number of persons included in the booking. He says that the group arrived in phases but no long delays occurred.

When asked, he said that they would normally stay at the restaurant until 23.30 - 24.00, although some of them would leave earlier, at about 23.00. They were people who showed their satisfaction with the food and would consume on average 8 bottles of wine (4 red, 4 white) between the nine of them, which he considered to be normal consumption for a group of such a number.

They did not drink coffee and as regards after dinner drinks (digestivos) they only consumed these once on 2nd May.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/J-T-R-Salcedas.htm

[sadie]

And four bottles of wine between nine of them with their dinner ... Peanuts!

And included in the deal up to one bottle each.   So free wine at that.

They are not drinkers/drunks

[gilet]

Why do you excuse the Mccanns and associates drinking habits ?

You are still not addressing the real issue at the heart of this matter.

Safety of the children.

Again can you disprove that they didn't drink more than you claim ?

Where are the statements of the other bar staff in this matter who served the party ?

P.S. I apologize for using the term apologist. It has been deleted.

I am excusing nobody. I am interested in facts and truth.
I have stated often that it was (with hindsight) wrong to have done what they did. They have stated the same.
There is no evidence of any drunkenness on the part of the McCanns. Till such evidence is provided by you or anyone else there is nothing to discuss. Either provide such evidence and let the discussion begin or we will conclude there is none.

And your repetition of the serving by bar staff remains unevidenced. Please demonstrate that the McCanns were served by such bar staff. How can their be statements if it never even happened. We know they took drinks from the restaurant to the bar, but you are making an allegation they also bought drinks in the bar. Can you prove that or not?

[stephen25000]

I am excusing nobody. I am interested in facts and truth.
I have stated often that it was (with hindsight) wrong to have done what they did. They have stated the same.
There is no evidence of any drunkenness on the part of the McCanns. Till such evidence is provided by you or anyone else there is nothing to discuss. Either provide such evidence and let the discussion begin or we will conclude there is none.

And your repetition of the serving by bar staff remains unevidenced. Please demonstrate that the McCanns were served by such bar staff. How can their be statements if it never even happened. We know they took drinks from the restaurant to the bar, but you are making an allegation they also bought drinks in the bar. Can you prove that or not?

Where did I say they were drunk ?

I was referring to the effects of alcohol in general.

A lack of statements by other bar staff does not mean nobody else didn't serve the party on any of those days, or can you prove otherwise ?

Can you prove beyond any shadow of a doubt how much each member of the party consumed on each of those nights ?

[south of the river]

I  never understand why people still bang on and on about the babysitting arrangements .  The McCann's  know that - they will have to live with it for ever,

The Portuguese have  said that  although unwise after the event it was not unlawful. For me it is there for the grace of god type of thing. It certainly made a lot more people aware on holiday about things.

But surely the reason most people are still involved in the case is to find out WHAT Happened - where is Madeleine who took her , how did they do it and why . It is to solve the mystery .

If the McCann's are involved in the disappearance as some people here think then why go on about the babysitting. That's like accusing Hitler of tax evasion - I mean hello

[Carana]

Partly deleted.

'The witness served almond bitters to all. He remembers that this happened on Wednesday. He does not remember if they had more after-dinner drinks. He does remember that on Wednesday, certain elements of the group got up, with their after-dinner drinks, and headed to the bar and stayed there until about 00H00/00H10. This was the only night where the group elements were in the bar after closing. He also remembers that they would normally be the last clients to leave. Wednesday was the last night they were at the bar after dinner.'

I presume at the bar they were exchanging pleasantries ?

Did you not read this ?

What of the other waiters, such as Jose Baptista, where is his statement ?

To rely on one statement is insufficient, but you choose to ignore that.

In the files.

02-Processos Volume II Pages 258 to 260
02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_258
02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_259
02_VOLUME_IIa_Page_260
Processos Volume II

Pages 258 to 260

Joaquim Jose Moreira Baptista

Occupation: Waiter

Place of Work: Tapas Bar, OC

Time/Date: 18H50 2007/05/06

Portuguese National

Comes to the process as a witness. He has worked as a waiter at the Tapas restaurant since 12th Feb 2007. His shift is from 16.00 - 24.00 except for Saturdays when he works from 11.30 to 19.00. The clients who frequent the restaurant are mainly English tourists staying at the OC resort.


When asked he says that he clearly recalls the appearance of the girl's parents, he does not know their names, together with a group of English tourists who generally accompanied them, as for almost a week prior to the disappearance they would dine practically every day in the Tapas restaurant. On the occasions he saw the group dining at the restaurant he never saw the children.

When asked, he says he does not remember ever having seen Madeleine's face, which only happened when he saw her photograph after the disappearance.

When asked, he said that during dinner the men from the group would leave the table, returning to the table a few minutes later. The witness says that he does not know where they went. These absences would last for about 15 minutes. He cannot say with what regularity these absences occurred.

The witness remembers these occurrences well as would often have to take a plate of food requested by one of them back, due to the guest's absence, when he would find that the guest was not at the table when he came to serve the food.

When questioned, the witness says that he remembers on Thursday 3rd May, on the day of the disappearance, that the parents went to dine at the restaurant with the usual people. He cannot be precise, but the witness says that the group arrived between 20.00 and 21.00. He remembers there being about 9 people in total. He states that he received the food orders from the group.

Later, between 22.00 and 22.30, when the witness was in the kitchen, he was informed by a colleague that in the meantime a client had entered the restaurant shouting and that afterwards the whole English had left in a panic. The witness' colleague told him that this individual had said that a child had disappeared. A few minutes later the witness noticed great agitation, with many people everywhere searching for the child.

From information that was coming out, the witness learned that the child was a girl, the daughter of one of the English couple and that she had been in a room nearby.

When asked, the witness says that at the time he was working in the restaurant and referring to the days before the disappearance, he never noticed anything unusual. He said that he was never asked about the habits of the English group nor any questions concerning children. He says that on the day of the disappearance from the time he arrived at work, he did not notice anything unusual.

When asked, he says that at the end of the evening the area surrounding the Tapas is quiet with little circulation of people.

He has no comments as to the motive for the disappearance.

No more is said. Read, ratifies, signs.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOAQUIM-J-M-BAPTISTA.htm


I don't see any mention of how much they drank in there.