Why did Amaral and PJ suspect the McCanns and Murat as being somehow involved?

[sadie]

Why, if Madeleine was already very tired at 5.35 ish, would a sleeping drug have been necessary? Do you mean that it would have been given before that? As far as I understand, drugs such as melatonin that are often used for kids to get them sleepy don't take very long at all to take effect, and are normally given as part of the child's bed-time routine. If Madeleine had been given something earlier (you mention 'tea time'), she would have been struggling to keep her eyes open long enough to get through bath time. Was she sooo tired that she missed her bath that night?

I have little idea of timings for drugs to take effect, but it certainly is recorded in the statements that she was soo tired that she had to be carried back.  Maybe the bath partially revitalised her?

You do understand what I am saying, don't you Sherlock?  Teatime was at 5pm ish at the outside tapas restaurant and she was very tired by 5.35.  So tired that she had to be carried home.

I cant wade thru all the files again; my eyes wont stand it.  But I think it said that they were read a story and that Madeleine was already lying down with her head on the pillow.  I got the feeling that the twins were sitting on  the edge of Madeleines bed whilst the story was being read.  If I have this recollection correct, this again demonstrates just how tired Madeleine, most especially, was.

Please correct me if my recollections are wrong on this.

[Angelo222]

Have you checked that out what is actually in Kate's book, Angelo?
Or just copied that from Jill haverns blog?

Most certainly DCI.  It is simple case of doing a search of the PDF file in the moderators library.

Anyway, to continue.  I don't want to sidetrack the debate into areas which have already been discussed at length on other threads serve to say that Mr Amaral and his colleagues were sufficiently concerned about the drugging issue to bring it up with the parents at interview.

Now we have to ask ourselves where do we go from here??  How does one dispose of a child's body in such circumstances??

[sadie]

Most certainly DCI.  It is simple case of doing a search of the PDF file in the moderators library.

Anyway, to continue.  I don't want to sidetrack the debate into areas which have already been discussed at length on other threads serve to say that Mr Amaral and his colleagues were sufficiently concerned about the drugging issue to bring it up with the parents at interview.

Now we have to ask ourselves where do we go from here??  How does one dispose of a child's body in such circumstances??

You will have to come up with that Angelo, cos I have gone thru it many time and nothing fits.  As far as I can see it is impossible.

Maybe some of you guys can up with a sensible suggestion.  We have been asking long enough for your ideas of what happened  .... and all we get is accusations against The Meccanns.  Never any ways, showing what the accusations infer could have been realised.


Over to you.

[DCI]

Most certainly DCI.  It is simple case of doing a search of the PDF file in the moderators library.

Anyway, to continue.  I don't want to sidetrack the debate into areas which have already been discussed at length on other threads serve to say that Mr Amaral and his colleagues were sufficiently concerned about the drugging issue to bring it up with the parents at interview.

Now we have to ask ourselves where do we go from here??  How does one dispose of a child's body in such circumstances??

So you are using Jill Haverns as a source?

Your post

Kate says in her book, that they took the decision to move south in 2000, to enable Gerry to take up a training post in cardiology, 'positions that were hard to come by', according to her.

Kate herself at the time 'had been promoted to a registrar post in anaesthetics in Glasgow and was -again according to Kate herself- working hard to complete her postgraduate exams or "fellowship".

Apparently it was possible for her to transfer from Glasgow to Leicester within six months.

Shortly after moving south -to Queniborough, she decided to leave anaesthetics even though she was happy in it.

Haverns, spot the difference!

Re: doctor gerry in glasgow.

Portia on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:38 am

Kate says in her book, that they took the decision to move south in 2000, to enable Gerry to take up a training post in cardiology, 'positions that were hard to come by', according to her.

She doesn't mention when they actually did move.

Kate herself at the time 'had been promoted to a registrar post in anaesthetics in Glasgow and was -again according to Kate herself- working hard to complete her postgraduate examns or "fellowship".

Apparently it was possible for her to transfer from Glasgow to Leicester within six months. She doesn't say six months from what.

Shortly after moving south -to Queniborough, she decided to leave anaesthetics even though she was happy in it.

[sadie]

Deleted

[Angelo222]

So you are using Jill Haverns as a source?

Did I give her as a source?  NO

The content is originally taken from Kates book and quoted by Haverns, have YOU read it?

Point being that Kate McCann was a qualified anaesthetist who was well versed in the art of sedation.

[Angelo222]

You will have to come up with that Angelo, cos I have gone thru it many time and nothing fits.  As far as I can see it is impossible.

Maybe some of you guys can up with a sensible suggestion.  We have been asking long enough for your ideas of what happened  .... and all we get is accusations against The Meccanns.  Never any ways, showing what the accusations infer could have been realised.


Over to you.

I am surprised that you of all people have not been able to put the pieces of the jigsaw together Sadie.

The theory so far by Mr Amaral and the Polícia Judiciária was that Madeleine had met with some sort of accident in the apartment.  The actions of the parents and the glaring inconsistencies in the initial statements gave them cause to be concerned.

[DCI]

Did I give her as a source?  NO

The content is originally taken from Kates book and quoted by Haverns, have YOU read it?

You still used it. Why not quote what Kate said in her book, instead of a post on a blog?

Aren't we told to quote the source, and not a blog?

Oh I've read it, and know the quote used isn't as its written in the book.

[sadie]

I am surprised that you of all people have not been able to put the pieces of the jigsaw together Sadie.

The theory so far by Mr Amaral and the Polícia Judiciária was that Madeleine had met with some sort of accident in the apartment.  The actions of the parents and the glaring inconsistencies in the initial statements gave them cause to be concerned.

That is the point.  I have tried several times ... and not been able to do it.

You are not answering my request, but merely stating the same old mantra from Amaral.


Lets have some nuts and bolts to how it actually could have been achieved. 
I've tried. 
Heri has tried. 
SY will have tried. 
Rebelo has tried
Sherlock, how about you?  After all you are a famous detective.

Or you Angelo, or faith, or any of you?   ...   Purleaze, put us out of our misery.  We have been waiting too long.

[Angelo222]

The PJ were faced with a predicament.  Initially there was an alleged sighting of a man carrying a child from the direction of the apartment just minutes after Gerry McCann had checked the three sleeping children.  A check of the apartment by one of the tapas 9 a short time later found the scene quiet.

Later on in the investigation another family report seeing a man carrying a child much closer to the beach area.  At least two members of this family claimed that the man they saw was none other than Gerry McCann.  But how could this be if Gerry McCann was present at the tapas bar at the very same time as their sighting?

An impossibility?

[sadie]

The PJ were faced with a predicament.  Initially there was an alleged sighting of a man carrying a child from the direction of the apartment just minutes after Gerry McCann had checked the three sleeping children.  A check of the apartment by one of the tapas 9 a short time later found the scene quiet.

So ?

Are we about to get your theory?  Please.

[Angelo222]

So ?

Are we about to get your theory?  Please.

And SO you may post Sadie.

It goes without saying that the man the Smith family saw carrying a child near the beach was not Gerry McCann.  He might well have resembled him but that is where it ends.

Let's take a step back to the evidence again.  The McCanns claimed that Madeleine was abducted, taken by some stranger.  They initially claimed that the shutter on the childrens bedroom window had been forced, that the window had been opened, that some person had climbed in that window, lifted Madeleine and carried her out the front door.

Forensics showed this to be unlikely.  The shutter was not forced, nobody climbed in and the only prints found were that of Kate McCann and a policeman. They didn't even find Gerry McCanns prints on the shutter or the window even though he claimed to have inspected them.  This could only mean one thing and that was that the alleged abductor walked in and out through the front door.  Amaral was unsure at this juncture as to what all this meant.

[Carana]

The PJ were faced with a predicament.  Initially there was an alleged sighting of a man carrying a child from the direction of the apartment just minutes after Gerry McCann had checked the three sleeping children.  A check of the apartment by one of the tapas 9 a short time later found the scene quiet.

Later on in the investigation another family report seeing a man carrying a child much closer to the beach area.  At least two members of this family claimed that the man they saw was none other than Gerry McCann. But how could this be if Gerry McCann was present at the tapas bar at the very same time as their sighting?

An impossibility?

In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane.

(...)

During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later.

[Angelo222]

Personally, I have felt all three children had something slipped into their teatime drinks .... or possibly were given sweeties that were some sport of drugs.  This is the third time I have said this, but I will say it again.  Madeleine was sooooo tired at 5.35ish that they had to carry her back to the apartment.  That is very early considering that IIRC their bedtime was normally 7.45

Also each evening, the pattern had been to bath the children and get them in their jammies, then to take them to join up with the other children for a play on the climbing frame, slide etc for a while before going to bed.  That night they were too tired to go and play.

All these things indicate the likelyhood that some sort of drug was administered to them at Teatime, with possibly a double dose for Madeleine.

Who could have done such a thing Sadie?

[sadie]

Who could have done such a thing Sadie?

I dont wish to point the finger at anyone Angelo, but kitchen staff, waiters, nannies, anyone who called in could have done that.

If you are insinuating the Mccanns did it, then why would they do it in a public place?  So easy to do it away from anyone

I think you are in the catering line aren't you, Angelo?   If so, you would know the bustle, with everyone rushing around when meals are being prepared and served.