Why did Amaral and PJ suspect the McCanns and Murat as being somehow involved?

[Benice]

Tanner's 'evidence' wasn't credible and that is why Rebelo wanted to stage a reconstruction so desperately.

The only way JT's evidence could be considered as 'not credible' was if she was lying - and IMO no-one has come up with a remotely credible reason why she would lie about anything, let alone something as massive as giving false evidence to the police in the case of a missing child.     

Amaral certainly found her evidence credible enough to risk breaking the law (according to Anne G) by arranging an illegal 'Identity Parade' for her when he had Robert Murat in his sights.

IMO it was only after he turned his attention onto the parents and JT's evidence became a 'problem' to his theory that she miraculously turned into a witness whose evidence was apparently no longer credible.    How very convenient.

[AnneGuedes]

Please don't make me say what I didn't.
There was emergency, I think nobody will deny this. Any second was precious in case the little girl was still alive. This is why Gonçalo Amaral and Bob Smart improvised the pseudo parade. Nobody blamed them, but of course what JT would say could only be intelligence, no evidence.

[Benice]

Please don't make me say what I didn't.
There was emergency, I think nobody will deny this. Any second was precious in case the little girl was still alive. This is why Gonçalo Amaral and Bob Smart improvised the pseudo parade. Nobody blamed them, but of course what JT would say could only be intelligence, no evidence.

IIRC correctly Anne I said the reason no witness statement was taken was because JT had not positively identified Murat as the man she saw on the 3rd carrying a child away -  as Amaral later repeatedly claimed she did.   You said that the reason there was no witness statement taken was because the Identify parade was illegal.   If you remember I asked whether Bob Small and JT were aware that they were being involved in an unlawful act.
 
I haven't got time to find the posts at the moment, but if you did not say it was illegal -  then I will be happy to apologise to you.  However maybe we can clear this matter up now -  if you would confirm whether or not it is illegal to hold  identity parades in Portugal such as the one Amaral conducted.  Either it is or it isn't. 
Thankyou.

[Chinagirl]

Please don't make me say what I didn't.
There was emergency, I think nobody will deny this. Any second was precious in case the little girl was still alive. This is why Gonçalo Amaral and Bob Smart improvised the pseudo parade. Nobody blamed them, but of course what JT would say could only be intelligence, no evidence.

That it was an "emergency" was no excuse for taking an illegal shortcut - ie: a "pseudo parade."  Beating a confession out of a suspect is also illegal in Portugal, yet Amaral condoned such action.  What was his excuse that time?

[ferryman]

Jane saw him close-to before the parade.

If she was going to recognise him, it would have been then ...

[AnneGuedes]

It seems Bob Smart had the idea and Gonçalo Amaral agreed because and only because there was a terrible emergency.
This is not a little detail, it explains the whole operation. If you neglect that detail, the whole episode doesn't make sense.
The rules defined by the Portuguese law for a parade weren't, couldn't be applied due to the time factor. One of these rules is that the person of interest has to know before, democracy legitimately requires it. The issue wasn't to obtain a statement of Ms Tanner but to confirm suspicions against Mr Murat's and launch a police raid.
No evidence was at stake, only intelligence.
If Ms Tanner had said "no way, it's not the man I saw", they might have renounced or at least postponed the police raid. Ms Tanner likely wasn't categorical but she didn't deny it could be the carrier. Now if she had said "yes, this is the carrier I saw", then some appropriate parade or confrontation should have been organized later in order to produce evidence in court.

[ferryman]

It seems Bob Smart had the idea and Gonçalo Amaral agreed because and only because there was a terrible emergency.

Bob Small, not Smart, but that's by-the-bye.

No report of Bob Small's appears on line, so we can't say whose idea the sighting was.

Something else rattles around in my brain that a proper identity parade ought to be one where the suspect is lined up with several other people, to see whether the 'suspect' is selected from several candidates ...

[AnneGuedes]

I'm sorry, Bob Small !
Yes, in this precise case men should have walked with a puppet of the size and the weight of a child on their forearms.
They should have organized such a parade imo, as they should have organized a parade for the Smith sighting.

[Benice]

It seems Bob Smart had the idea and Gonçalo Amaral agreed because and only because there was a terrible emergency.
This is not a little detail, it explains the whole operation. If you neglect that detail, the whole episode doesn't make sense.
The rules defined by the Portuguese law for a parade weren't, couldn't be applied due to the time factor. One of these rules is that the person of interest has to know before, democracy legitimately requires it. The issue wasn't to obtain a statement of Ms Tanner but to confirm suspicions against Mr Murat's and launch a police raid.
No evidence was at stake, only intelligence.
If Ms Tanner had said "no way, it's not the man I saw", they might have renounced or at least postponed the police raid. Ms Tanner likely wasn't categorical but she didn't deny it could be the carrier. Now if she had said "yes, this is the carrier I saw", then some appropriate parade or confrontation should have been organized later in order to produce evidence in court.

Can you cite the evidence that this was Bob Small's idea please?

Personally, I have been unable to find out whether Bob Small was even in the van with JT during this identity parade or whether his role was simply to  inform JT of the request from the PJ and to meet her at the arranged place.  I somehow doubt it as he would have been able to confirm the outcome of the ID parade had he been in the van with her.

I don't agree that it was done because of the 'time factor' -  there was nothing to stop a legal identity parade from being organised at the proper time.      It would appear that Amaral preferred to trample over Robert Murat's rights and break the law rather than apply proper policing practices.   
   
If as you claim no evidence was at stake, then why bother to do it in the first place?   Having heard of the lies told to the McCanns re the dogs and DNA  during their interviews - it is not difficult to believe that Murat was told that JT had positively identified him as the man she saw during his interview.    In fact that would explain his apparent animosity towards JT and his intention to sue her - (although whether that is true or a forum myth I do not know.)   

Amaral has used the event to repeatedly and falsely claim that JT positively identified RM - IMO done purely to discredit her credibility as a witness because her sighting completely negated his theory that the parents disposed of Madeleine's body.

[Carana]

It seems Bob Smart had the idea and Gonçalo Amaral agreed because and only because there was a terrible emergency.
This is not a little detail, it explains the whole operation. If you neglect that detail, the whole episode doesn't make sense.
The rules defined by the Portuguese law for a parade weren't, couldn't be applied due to the time factor. One of these rules is that the person of interest has to know before, democracy legitimately requires it. The issue wasn't to obtain a statement of Ms Tanner but to confirm suspicions against Mr Murat's and launch a police raid.
No evidence was at stake, only intelligence.
If Ms Tanner had said "no way, it's not the man I saw", they might have renounced or at least postponed the police raid. Ms Tanner likely wasn't categorical but she didn't deny it could be the carrier. Now if she had said "yes, this is the carrier I saw", then some appropriate parade or confrontation should have been organized later in order to produce evidence in court.

That should be covered in the CPP, shouldn't it? I haven't looked, perhaps you could find the relevant Articles.

Would it come under ID parade?

Are there any points covering emergency covert operations which may be later ratified by the prosecutor?

[AnneGuedes]

Such gratuitous doubts and speculations, such lack of consideration for the little girl, then hoped to be still alive, interestingly illustrate through which mechanisms the Madeleine case rapidly became the McCann and co case. 6 years ago, almost exactly, when the parents became official suspects and left immediately, giving some credit to suspicion, people in Portugal stopped being interested in this case. It's not Mr Amaral's book that did it, it was the focus on the McCann instead of what had happened to Madeleine.

[Carana]

Can you cite the evidence that this was Bob Small's idea please?

Personally, I have been unable to find out whether Bob Small was even in the van with JT during this identity parade or whether his role was simply to  inform JT of the request from the PJ and to meet her at the arranged place.  I somehow doubt it as he would have been able to confirm the outcome of the ID parade had he been in the van with her.

I don't agree that it was done because of the 'time factor' -  there was nothing to stop a legal identity parade from being organised at the proper time.      It would appear that Amaral preferred to trample over Robert Murat's rights and break the law rather than apply proper policing practices.   
   
If as you claim no evidence was at stake, then why bother to do it in the first place?   Having heard of the lies told to the McCanns re the dogs and DNA  during their interviews - it is not difficult to believe that Murat was told that JT had positively identified him as the man she saw during his interview.    In fact that would explain his apparent animosity towards JT and his intention to sue her - (although whether that is true or a forum myth I do not know.)   

Amaral has used the event to repeatedly and falsely claim that JT positively identified RM - IMO done purely to discredit her credibility as a witness because her sighting completely negated his theory that the parents disposed of Madeleine's body.

As a bluff technique, that wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Carana]

Such gratuitous doubts and speculations, such lack of consideration for the little girl, then hoped to be still alive, interestingly illustrate through which mechanisms the Madeleine case rapidly became the McCann and co case. 6 years ago, almost exactly, when the parents became official suspects and left immediately, giving some credit to suspicion, people in Portugal stopped being interested in this case. It's not Mr Amaral's book that did it, it was the focus on the McCann instead of what had happened to Madeleine.

So-called leaks from police sources close to the investigation hardly helped, did they?

[AnneGuedes]

That should be covered in the CPP, shouldn't it? I haven't looked, perhaps you could find the relevant Articles.

Would it come under ID parade?

Are there any points covering emergency covert operations which may be later ratified by the prosecutor?

No, this kind of unofficial operation, though everybody knows they occur everywhere, is certainly not ratified by the prosecutor, even if emergency justified it.
Those (often ex-convicts) that inform the police as well are unofficial and when they're paid it doesn't appear in the accounts.

[Carana]

No, this kind of unofficial operation, though everybody knows they occur everywhere, is certainly not ratified by the prosecutor, even if emergency justified it.
Those (often ex-convicts) that inform the police as well are unofficial and when they're paid it doesn't appear in the accounts.

You mentioned rules. They must be covered in the CPP.