The DNA results used to implicate the McCanns revisited.

[Angelo222]

It is very obvious that when it comes to DNA testing within familys that a whole new set of obstacles appear.  Had Madeleine been adopted or conceived using donated eggs and sperm then the PJ might just have had a case.  As it was, she wasn't and they didn't!!

[DCI]

It is very obvious that when it comes to DNA testing within familys that a whole new set of obstacles appear.  Had Madeleine been adopted or conceived using donated eggs and sperm then the PJ might just have had a case.  As it was, she wasn't and they didn't!!

Yes, and there were rumours spread that Gerry was not Madeleine's father. I may be wrong but I think thats also in Amarals book?

[AnneGuedes]

Do you have a reliable source for that?

http://www.labluxor.com/teste-de-paternidade

[AnneGuedes]

Particularly as further up he stated that the PJ team didn't share Prior's "disappointment" with the results.

Had SP no reason to be disappointed with results that, being inconclusive, were questioning the pertinence of recommending the FSS ?

[DCI]

I am not sure, DCI.  And I am not going to trawl through it to find out. 

But there were some doubts raised at the time, which were settled by forensic reports which settled the matter.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JOHN_LOWE.htm#2280

Yes and look at the date, the truth was known

2280 to 2281 FSS Forensic Report re G & K McCann DNA samples 2007.07.28

Well before any news reports, made as soon as they left Portugal, or Amarals book.

[Jean-Pierre]

Reading the reports, and amarals book, documenatary and interviews, I really do wonder whether he was actually up to the job. 

[sadie]

Reading the reports, and amarals book, documenatary and interviews, I really do wonder whether he was actually up to the job.

He got the results, J-P

But never ask how he got them.  That's not allowed in PT Law, it seems.  Never question the PJ or the Judiciary, or you could end up in jail.

[Carana]

Thanks for the link, Anne. It doesn't mention which test kit they use (specific paternity-testing kits are available which may vary in terms in terms of which areas are examined, as opposed to those examined for forensic purposes ), but anyway they use a system based on 15 loci "loci (regiões)".


However, the components from the boot in Madeleine's profile were not the results from 15 loci (aka markers).
For a start, the UK only examine 10 loci (markers). They found - within that mixture of 37 alleles - 15 alleles (they search for 2 alleles at each of the loci (location/marker region). That result would have been useless to determine paternity (if the need had arisen) as such a test would require full and isolated profiles.

This is where the oft-repeated myth may have originated (from the same interview I quoted earlier).


GA: The reports from the English labs… the English reports arrive shortly before the questionings that were scheduled. And it contained certain conclusions, if they thought they were inconclusive they shouldn't have mentioned it, the question of the 15 alleles in a profile of 19 from the little girl, stating that they match Madeleine McCann, but they also say that it could have been a construction let's say from various donors, from other persons, a contamination could have produced Madeleine McCann's profile by coincidence. But there are no excuses for saying that it is not from Madeleine McCann because they held the profiles of the father, the mother, the siblings, therefore there are no doubts that at least within that family they only matched Madeleine McCann's.

DL: In Portugal, for example, we only need a match of 15 alleles out of 19 in order to determine someone's paternity, therefore… That is the first fact. The second fact is that at this moment, the institute for Forensic Medicine is already prepared, they already own the same equipment as the FSS in England to carry out this type of analysis. Why does the Public Ministry or the Polícia Judiciária not request, or don't they have any more samples to carry out…

[Carana]

Reading the reports, and amarals book, documenatary and interviews, I really do wonder whether he was actually up to the job.

Well, if he didn't understand DNA - why didn't he ask Corte-Real instead of coming up with wild theories about a thawing body?

Corte-Real explained exactly the same thing as Lowe in his documentary:

Dr Francisco Corte-Real
Vice President, National Forensics Institute

33.09 – When those 15 alleles are included in a mix, where beyond those 15 we can have another 30 or 40 alleles, that means that it includes biological material from several persons. And there it can be much more difficult, much more inconclusive, because we may have a mixture from several persons, including hypothetically, if that happens, we may have several persons from the same family, and that may even give us the idea, in a way, that a certain missing person may be included, and that is not conclusive.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AMARAL_DOC_13_04_09.htm#doc

[Carana]

The subject of DNA analysis is very complicated and I for one do not for a minute pretend to understand all about it.   That said however there is always confusion about the number of markers which constitute a match under the law.

It is my understanding that 20 markers or 10 pairs are required in the UK before a match can be confirmed although as few as 15 are accepted in many other countries including some US States and Canada.  Does anyone know what the legal requirement is in Portugal??

I think you're confusing alleles and markers.

The UK system is based on SGM+, which looks for 20 alleles in 10 marker locations.

However many are used normally for forensic purposes, in the tests done in the Madeleine case, they used 2 different kits each with 15 marker locations, many of which were the same, but a few were different ones, i.e., they actually went over the norm from what I understand.

[DCI]

Well, if he didn't understand DNA - why didn't he ask Corte-Real instead of coming up with wild theories about a thawing body?

Corte-Real explained exactly the same thing as Lowe in his documentary:

Dr Francisco Corte-Real
Vice President, National Forensics Institute

33.09 – When those 15 alleles are included in a mix, where beyond those 15 we can have another 30 or 40 alleles, that means that it includes biological material from several persons. And there it can be much more difficult, much more inconclusive, because we may have a mixture from several persons, including hypothetically, if that happens, we may have several persons from the same family, and that may even give us the idea, in a way, that a certain missing person may be included, and that is not conclusive.

http://www.gerrymccannsblogs.co.uk/AMARAL_DOC_13_04_09.htm#doc

He didn't want to understand them, if they didn't fit his theories.

Didn't he have Jane in an apartment in Burgau at some point

[DCI]

 8-)(--)

12-Processos Vol XII Pages 3252 to 3253

From Goncalo Amaral

To: INML

Date: 4th September 2007

The present request deals with the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann on 3rd May 2007.

Within the scope of this request we have asked the INML to carry out various analyses as your letter 2007000226 LX / BC reports.


The results were delivered to us in a letter dated 9th July 2007 ref 13.079, with a cover letter dated 11th July 2007.

Upon reading the report we observed that several DNA profiles are defined but which have not been identified.


The apartment from which the samples were collected for analysis is occupied by families from the UK.

The UK police and legal authorities have informed us about the existence of a database for the register of DNA profiles.

As the objective is to proceed to identify the profiles defined in your analyses we request that you send us the list of unidentified profiles.
This request has the objective of seeking their eventual identification through the UK legal authorities.

Goncalo Amaral

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PORTUGUESE-FORENSIC.htm

[DCI]

I don't think he did actually, I can't remember offhand. The press did, though, I seem to remember.

I can see how that rumour originated - they did find one or more of the same haplotype as Jane's and, of course, the press didn't bother to find out what that actually signified.

PJ final report

From pages 4167 to 4182, the forensics report from the National Institute for Forensic Medicine was appended, whose conclusions do not allow for significant advances in the investigation, but which identify several different haplotypes, some of which match intervenients in the process and others without any identificative value.

Immediately, the question concerning the differentiating value of some haplotypes [haplotype (Greek haploos = single) is a combination of alleles at multiple loci that are transmitted together on the same chromosome] was raised, namely concerning JANE TANNER, page 4175, which was located in a residence in Burgau, which, in our understanding, would not be viable and logical, or to say the least, would be very strange. Therefore, in order to clarify this situation, a clarification was requested from that Institute, pages 4320 and following, which, in its reply, is peremptory in stating that there are haplotypes that are identical among each other, in a percentage that is still significant, pages 4325 to 4328. This means that the hair that was found inside that residence, while possessing the same haplotype as JANE TANNER, belongs to someone else.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/P_J_FINAL_REPORT.htm

[Carana]

Thanks, DCI. That saved me yet another trip to the files...

[Carana]

Had SP no reason to be disappointed with results that, being inconclusive, were questioning the pertinence of recommending the FSS ?

Who took the decision to use the FSS?

What difference would it have made if the LCN had been done in a different country? 15 out of 37 alleles still wouldn't have been conclusive of anything wherever the test was done.