The DNA results used to implicate the McCanns revisited.

[Redblossom]

No, 'he' never..

Well, thats an opinion isnt it? Not a fact. You can't say Eddie did not alert to the scent of a dead body

Same way SW is asserting it was

So no difference there really, albeit there is the fact a child disappeared from there, so the possiblity remains Eddie did exactly that in the absence of any evidence he did not

Gnite

[VIXTE]

Well, thats an opinion isnt it? Not a fact. You can't say Eddie did not alert to the scent of a dead body

Same way SW is asserting it was

So no difference there really, albeit there is the fact a child disappeared from there, so the possiblity remains Eddie did exactly that in the absence of any evidence he did not

Gnite

It is not an option. There was no dead body..And scientifically too, there was no proof of a dead body..

[Redblossom]

It is not an option.
Yes it is

There was no dead body

You are in no position to assert this



.And scientifically too, there was no proof of a dead body..


Well, thats limited in its abilities

......


Laters

[VIXTE]

......
Well, thats limited in its abilities

Laters

Ah, then we can same way say there are purple eyed mouse like creatures on planet Neptune, living in a snail like housings which they constantly carry with them.. but it is out of our ability really to currently communicate with them..

[pathfinder73]

Madeleine's DNA wasn't found in 5A (they had to get it in England) so does that mean she never existed? Of course not. Did the abductor clean the flat before leaving. This abductor was crazy and had loads of time on his hands to open noisy shutters and window that weren't used, move doors back and forth to puzzle Gerry, drug the kids and then clean the flat whilst regular checks were going on. Maybe the invisible man does exist. Eddie alerted to cadaver scent.

[VIXTE]

Madeleine's DNA wasn't found in 5A (they had to get it in England) so does that mean she never existed? Of course not. Did the abductor clean the flat before leaving. This abductor was crazy and had loads of time on his hands to open noisy shutters and window that weren't used, move doors back and forth to puzzle Gerry, drug the kids and then clean the flat whilst regular checks were going on. Maybe the invisible man does exist. Eddie alerted to cadaver scent.

Untrue. Madeleine's DNA was in 5A but it would be safer to clarify her DNA from a neutral source.
To be honest, I don't remember that Madeleines DNA being brought from the UK was ever mentioned in the files.. meaning that it might be a myth.. I have to check up on this.

Secondly, several 'partial' DNAs were found in 5A belonging to unknown people.. This is in the files.
I am not sure how partial there were. But in case they find the culprit by other means ( phone traffic for example) then they can possibly compare the person's DNA with partial DNA profiles found in the apartment..

Eddie alerted to 3 live human beings. Fact!

[Eleanor]

Madeleine's DNA wasn't found in 5A (they had to get it in England) so does that mean she never existed? Of course not. Did the abductor clean the flat before leaving. This abductor was crazy and had loads of time on his hands to open noisy shutters and window that weren't used, move doors back and forth to puzzle Gerry, drug the kids and then clean the flat whilst regular checks were going on. Maybe the invisible man does exist. Eddie alerted to cadaver scent.

There was a three month gap between The Abduction and The Dogs.  The appartment was cleaned several times by OC Cleaners.  At least I hope it was.

There will have been DNA of Madeleine, but probably contaminated by others, so they couldn't be sure.

Eddie was not a "Cadaver Dog" initially so he was always flawed on that count.

And all Cadaver Dogs react to body fluids from live people if there is no Cadaver present.

[AnneGuedes]

The additional posts have been added re DNA.

All assumptions concerning DNA should be linked imo. I've read ones that discredit this forum, John.

[Mr Gray]

this IS  taken from the AG archiving report...at least they understood the dogs..

These dogs, which had already been used on multiple occasions by the Scotland Yard and by the FBI with positive results, are evidence collection means and do not serve as evidence; any residue, even if invisible to the naked eye, which is collected using this type of dogs, has to be subject to forensics testing in a credentialed laboratory.


So it sates that the dogs are evidence collection...they find evidence...nothing more

[John]

This thread relates primarily to DNA but I have allowed some posts concerning cadaver dogs where there is an overlap. 

If your post relates specifically to scent dogs please use the link below...   TY 

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1513.0

[VIXTE]

15 alleles on 19 matched hers. Had they been 19 that would have been certain.

You do understand that these 15 components are also partly present in both Kate McCann and Gerry McCann DNA profiles as Madeleine inherited 50:50 of her DNA profile from both parents?????

As did both Sean and Amelie.

And you do understand that these 15 components are out of 37 components which belong to different people, at least three individuals?

A complex LCN DNA result which appeared to have originated from at least three people was obtained from cellular material recovered from the luggage compartment section 286C 2007 CRL10 (2) area 2. Within the DNA profile of Madeline McCann there are 20 DNA components represented by 19 peaks on a chart. At one of the areas of DNA we routinely examine Madeleine has inherited the same DNA component from both parents; this appears therefore as 1 peak rather than 2, hence 19 rather than 20. Of these 19 components 15 are present within the result from this item; there are 37 components in total. There are 37 components because there are at least 3 contributors; but there could be up to five contributors. In my opinion therefore this result is too complex for meaningful interpretation/inclusion. http://www.mccannfiles.com/id268.html

Further more if you say 'but only Madeleine is possibly dead and Eddie pointed at a cadaver scent' you have to be aware that other 3 places where Eddie alerted produced almost full DNA profiles identifying 3 people who are alive.. so there is no reason to think that Eddie wouldn't point at the 4th place ( the car) where also the alive persons DNA was present.

[John]

I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts on this thread (joys of an editor) but reference is being made to the 13 alleles in identifying Madeleine.  Given that she had twin siblings and biologically related parents it would not be unusual for them to share DNA markers to a high extent.   Identical twins are the only people who have identical genetic markers.

However, the more closely related two people are, the more likely it is that some of their genetic markers will be similar.

In those circumstances therefore, a DNA match of 18 or more would be required to prove a specific match to someone in the family imo.

If her siblings or parents had not used the hire car the 13 alleles could very well have proven sufficient.

In the UK a match of 10 pairs of markers or 20 alleles is required for a match under the Law whereas in the USA a match of 13 alleles is accepted.  Does anyone happen to know what Portuguese Law accepts and whether when the FSS made ther determination they were applying UK standards to Portugal?

[VIXTE]

I haven't had a chance to read through all the posts on this thread (joys of an editor) but reference is being made to the 13 alleles in identifying Madeleine.  Given that she had twin siblings and biologically related parents it would not be unusual for them to share DNA markers to a high extent.   Identical twins are the only people who have identical genetic markers.

However, the more closely related two people are, the more likely it is that some of their genetic markers will be similar.

In those circumstances therefore, a DNA match of 18 or more would be required to prove a specific match to someone in the family imo.

If her siblings or parents had not used the hire car the 13 alleles could very well have proven sufficient.

In the UK a match of 10 pairs of markers or 20 alleles is required for a match under the Law whereas in the USA a match of 13 alleles is accepted.  Does anyone happen to know what Portuguese Law accepts and whether when the FSS made ther determination they were applying UK standards to Portugal?

In this case this doesn't  count as the parents used the car and the brother and sister as well.. and it is completely expected to find these partials in the car..

[Redblossom]

You do understand that these 15 components are also partly present in both Kate McCann and Gerry McCann DNA profiles as Madeleine inherited 50:50 of her DNA profile from both parents?????

As did both Sean and Amelie.

And you do understand that these 15 components are out of 37 components which belong to different people, at least three individuals?

Further more if you say 'but only Madeleine is possibly dead and Eddie pointed at a cadaver scent' you have to be aware that other 3 places where Eddie alerted produced almost full DNA profiles identifying 3 people who are alive.. so there is no reason to think that Eddie wouldn't point at the 4th place ( the car) where also the alive persons DNA was present.

If you are going to post can you make sure you get your facts right and/or give links

- Eddie did not alert to three places in the apartment behind the sofa which is the area where you post about, vis a vis dna found, he made one alert in the general area and no ones knows if he was alerting to cadaver scent or blood
- Eddie did not alert to dna profiles
- There were no three almost full dna profiles
- There was a mixed sample from more than one person where confirmed markers matched Madeleines
- Please stop saying Eddie alerts to living humans
- Material was collected around the areas Keela alerted to, she alerts to blood, thats the only reason swabs were taken, which may have included remnant dna from non bleeders
- The key fob also did not contain a full dna profile
Bit of a dogs dinner isnt it?


ETA

BTW it s not a myth that Madeleines dna profile was sent from the UK to Portugal, it is a fact! Her profile was extracted from a pillowcase retrieved from home and sent around 22/05/07

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm

[AnneGuedes]

If you are going to post can you make sure you get your facts right and/or give links

- Eddie did not alert to three places in the apartment behind the sofa which is the area where you post about, vis a vis dna found, he made one alert in the general area and no ones knows if he was alerting to cadaver scent or blood
- Eddie did not alert to dna profiles
- There were no three almost full dna profiles
- There was a mixed sample from more than one person where confirmed markers matched Madeleines
- Please stop saying Eddie alerts to living humans
- Material was collected around the areas Keela alerted to, she alerts to blood, thats the only reason swabs were taken, which may have included remnant dna from non bleeders
- The key fob also did not contain a full dna profile
Bit of a dogs dinner isnt it?

If the key passed some time in Mrs McCann's famous pants (her favourite according to the pictures), it could have been contaminated.