The DNA results used to implicate the McCanns revisited.

[AnneGuedes]

So in a nutshell (...oops coconuts) the dogs alerts and the CSI results tell us nothing?

They tell a lot !
A few readings would convince you..

[AnneGuedes]

I think it is more accurate to say there is no CSI samples in 3 cases.

Not really, because another kind of body substance could theoretically have been found.
Had they had the STU 100 device, they could have captured the VOCs in the bedroom corner, send that air for analysis and kept a part for future researches.

[Redblossom]

Right Vixte, here are your Vicrotian windows, your responses to my comments / other posts are in blue, my responses to your responses in red

Quote from: Redblossom on February 24, 2014, 09:13:02 PM
If you are going to post can you make sure you get your facts right and/or give links

- Eddie did not alert to three places in the apartment behind the sofa which is the area where you post about, vis a vis dna found, he made one alert in the general area and no ones knows if he was alerting to cadaver scent or blood
Are you sure? Eddie did actually alert behind the sofa
Quote
In apartment 5A:
* between 20h16 (typing error in the report shows 21h16) and 20h30 the "cadaver" dog alerted:
- at 20h20 in the area of the wardrobe of the main bedroom
- at 20h22 in the lounge, specifically behind the sofa next to the window that overlooks the street.

Yea, of course I know he alerted behnd the sofa! maybe I didnt make it clear. He alerted once not three times for three different spots! He doesnt alert to specific spots! Thats Keela's job

Quote from: Redblossom on February 24, 2014, 09:13:02 PM
- Eddie did not alert to dna profiles

True. But the places where Eddie alerted were sent to the lab to investigate why Eddie alerted there.. This was the purpose of Eddie.. to pinpoint the places which the labs later investigate.

No, places are not sent to labs, physical evidence is, that is the job of Keela to find, ie blood, in the absence of remains where Eddie alerts to remnant scent

Quote from: Redblossom on February 24, 2014, 09:13:02 PM
- There were no three almost full dna profiles

Yes there were
Quote
On the samples three DNA profiles were identified:
- A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card(286C/2007-CRL(12)).
- 286A/2007-CRL 5A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment ... In my opinion, Fernando Viegas could have contributed DNA to this result.
- 286/2007-CRL (17) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 2...In my opinion, the major part of the profile matched that of Lino Henriques.

Thats not exactly three nearly full dna proffiles
Quote
- There was a mixed sample from more than one person where confirmed markers matched Madeleines
Markers never matched Madeleine. Can you point the place in the files where it is confirmed that the markers matched Madeleine?

Well, you tell me, from three extracts from the FSS report one minute is says confirmed the next unconfirmed


An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid.

A weak incomplete DNA result which consisted of only a few unconfirmed DNA components was obtained from cellular material on the swab (3A) from the apartment floor

286A/2007-CRL 3A& B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
An incomplete and weak DNA result comprising only some unconfirmed DNA components was obtained from the cellular material present in the dry swab (3A). The attempt to obtain a result from any cellular material that may have been in the same area and present in the wet swab (3B) was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN tests.

An incomplete DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3A). The low-level DNA result showed very meagre information indicating more than one person. Departing from the principle that all confirmed DNA components within the scope of this result originated from a single source, then these pointed to corresponding components in the profile of Madeleine McCann; however, if the DNA within the scope of this result originated from more than one person then the result could be explained as being DNA originating from [a mixture of DNA from both] Kate Healy and Gerald McCann, for example. DNA profiles established through LCN are extremely sensitive; it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid. nor to determine how or when that DNA was transferred to that area.
Quote
- Please stop saying Eddie alerts to living humans
Eddie does do that.. because Eddie also alerts to dried blood from live humans

No, it doesnt mean that, it means he can alert to dried blood from somene who has not died, it is not the same to say he reacts to living human beings! That use of language can muddy the waters and Im sure you wouldnt want to do that
Quote
- Material was collected around the areas Keela alerted to, she alerts to blood, thats the only reason swabs were taken, which may have included remnant dna from non bleeders
That is not in the files, it is your own opinion.

A fairly informed one nonetheless, blood and other dna material do get mixed you know


Quote
ETA

BTW it s not a myth that Madeleines dna profile was sent from the UK to Portugal, it is a fact! Her profile was extracted from a pillowcase retrieved from home and sent around 22/05/07

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm
Thank you.. but where does it say in that link that Madeleine's DNA was obtained from the UK?
I do remember newspapers reports about Gerry going to UK for this reason but I don't remember seeing it anywhere in the files.

Pages 273to 381
saliva sample taken from pillowcase (obviously from the uk) and delvered to FSS May 2007



[quote author=VIXTE link=topic=2123.msg132132#msg132132 date=1393283710]
And which is it?
Out of 4 times Eddie alerted 3 times to a human blood - or whatever.. but human
4th time is inconclusive.
So you are arguing that this 4th time is the cadaver scent?
Why would it be? Why cannot it be human 'scent' as previous 3 times ( Gerry plus 2 officers)
How much probability that would be mathematically?
[/quote]

Again you are confused. Eddie alerted  once in the general area behnd the sofa, not three times for three specific areas. And you cant assert it was human blood when the handler himself doesnt offer that possibility. (But maybe he forgot to say!)

Hope thats all sorted now, as I wont be arguing over any of this with you anymore. God that was hard work
 

 Cheers.
.....

[AnneGuedes]

I'm amazed, Redblossom, by your patience.

[Redblossom]

I'm amazed, Redblossom, by your patience.

I wont be trying  that again!

 

 

At some point it becomes a bit pointless but some misunderstandings have to be addressed sometimes


And I suggest Vixte doesnt quote all that and insert answers LOL

[Mr Gray]

I wont be trying  that again!

 

 

At some point it becomes a bit pointless but some misunderstandings have to be addressed sometimes


And I suggest Vixte doesnt quote all that and insert answers LOL

Whats the point in replying to this post...what are you trying to prove...there is no match to Maddie..thats it

[Mr Gray]

It would be interesting to see.

Probabilities around the dogs.
Probabilities around changing statements.
Probabilities around timelines.
Probabilities around sleeping twins.

Etc. etc.

The combined probabilities of them all being explained innocently is fairly small statistically speaking.

Absolutely not...just that if you throw enough mud...some will stick and the more that's thrown...the more that will stick

[Redblossom]

Whats the point in replying to this post...what are you trying to prove...there is no match to Maddie..thats it

I was tryng to explain various thngs to Vixte, which he/she is confused about/was enquiring about,not tryng to prove anythng at all, and of course, you dont have to reply to every post on this board, so dont if you dont feel like it, lol, cheers

[Mr Gray]

I was tryng to explain various thngs to Vixte, which he/she is confused about/was enquiring about,not tryng to prove anythng at all, and of course, you dont have to reply to every post on this board, so dont if you dont feel like it, lol, cheers

Im pointing out that that there was no match to Maddie

[Silkywhiskers]

It would be interesting to see.

Probabilities around the dogs.
Probabilities around changing statements.
Probabilities around timelines.
Probabilities around sleeping twins.

Etc. etc.

The combined probabilities of them all being explained innocently is fairly small statistically speaking.

 

[VIXTE]

Right Vixte, here are your Vicrotian windows, your responses to my comments / other posts are in blue, my responses to your responses in red

Quote from: Redblossom on February 24, 2014, 09:13:02 PM
If you are going to post can you make sure you get your facts right and/or give links

- Eddie did not alert to three places in the apartment behind the sofa which is the area where you post about, vis a vis dna found, he made one alert in the general area and no ones knows if he was alerting to cadaver scent or blood
Are you sure? Eddie did actually alert behind the sofa
Quote
In apartment 5A:
* between 20h16 (typing error in the report shows 21h16) and 20h30 the "cadaver" dog alerted:
- at 20h20 in the area of the wardrobe of the main bedroom
- at 20h22 in the lounge, specifically behind the sofa next to the window that overlooks the street.

Yea, of course I know he alerted behnd the sofa! maybe I didnt make it clear. He alerted once not three times for three different spots! He doesnt alert to specific spots! Thats Keela's job

Quote from: Redblossom on February 24, 2014, 09:13:02 PM
- Eddie did not alert to dna profiles

True. But the places where Eddie alerted were sent to the lab to investigate why Eddie alerted there.. This was the purpose of Eddie.. to pinpoint the places which the labs later investigate.

No, places are not sent to labs, physical evidence is, that is the job of Keela to find, ie blood, in the absence of remains where Eddie alerts to remnant scent

Not worth of comment

Quote from: Redblossom on February 24, 2014, 09:13:02 PM
- There were no three almost full dna profiles

Yes there were
Quote
On the samples three DNA profiles were identified:
- A low level incomplete DNA profile which matched the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Gerald McCann was obtained from cellular material on the key card(286C/2007-CRL(12)).
- 286A/2007-CRL 5A & B Swabs collected from the wall of the apartment ... In my opinion, Fernando Viegas could have contributed DNA to this result.
- 286/2007-CRL (17) Cement-glue [grouting] between the floor tiles identified as number 2...In my opinion, the major part of the profile matched that of Lino Henriques.

Thats not exactly three nearly full dna proffiles

Not worth of  comment because these people were identified and Madeleine was never identified..



- There was a mixed sample from more than one person where confirmed markers matched Madeleines
Markers never matched Madeleine. Can you point the place in the files where it is confirmed that the markers matched Madeleine?

Well, you tell me, from three extracts from the FSS report one minute is says confirmed the next unconfirmed


An incomplete DNA result was obtained from cellular material on the swab 3a. The swab contained very little information and showed low level indications of DNA from more than one person. However, all of the confirmed DNA components within this result match the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeline McCann. LCN DNA profiling is highly sensitive it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid.

A weak incomplete DNA result which consisted of only a few unconfirmed DNA components was obtained from cellular material on the swab (3A) from the apartment floor

286A/2007-CRL 3A& B Swabs collected from the floor of the apartment
An incomplete and weak DNA result comprising only some unconfirmed DNA components was obtained from the cellular material present in the dry swab (3A). The attempt to obtain a result from any cellular material that may have been in the same area and present in the wet swab (3B) was unfruitful, given that no profile was obtained. These samples were submitted for LCN tests.

An incomplete DNA result was obtained through LCN from cellular material present in the swab (286A/2007 CRL 3A). The low-level DNA result showed very meagre information indicating more than one person. Departing from the principle that all confirmed DNA components within the scope of this result originated from a single source, then these pointed to corresponding components in the profile of Madeleine McCann; however, if the DNA within the scope of this result originated from more than one person then the result could be explained as being DNA originating from [a mixture of DNA from both] Kate Healy and Gerald McCann, for example. DNA profiles established through LCN are extremely sensitive; it is not possible to attribute this DNA profile to a particular body fluid. nor to determine how or when that DNA was transferred to that area.

The emphasis here is on 'from more than one person' ..It partly matched Madeleine but it can also partly match other different people

Quote
- Please stop saying Eddie alerts to living humans
Eddie does do that.. because Eddie also alerts to dried blood from live humans

No, it doesnt mean that, it means he can alert to dried blood from somene who has not died, it is not the same to say he reacts to living human beings! That use of language can muddy the waters and Im sure you wouldnt want to do that[/colour]

In my world people who are not dead are alive

Quote
- Material was collected around the areas Keela alerted to, she alerts to blood, thats the only reason swabs were taken, which may have included remnant dna from non bleeders
That is not in the files, it is your own opinion.

A fairly informed one nonetheless, blood and other dna material do get mixed you know

Again, your own opinion, not a fact from files or an opinion from an expert

Quote
ETA

BTW it s not a myth that Madeleines dna profile was sent from the UK to Portugal, it is a fact! Her profile was extracted from a pillowcase retrieved from home and sent around 22/05/07

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MADELEINES_DNA.htm
Thank you.. but where does it say in that link that Madeleine's DNA was obtained from the UK?
I do remember newspapers reports about Gerry going to UK for this reason but I don't remember seeing it anywhere in the files.

Pages 273to 381
saliva sample taken from pillowcase (obviously from the uk) and delvered to FSS May 2007

Sorry not seen anywhere that it was from the UK



[quote author=VIXTE link=topic=2123.msg132132#msg132132 date=1393283710]
And which is it?
Out of 4 times Eddie alerted 3 times to a human blood - or whatever.. but human
4th time is inconclusive.
So you are arguing that this 4th time is the cadaver scent?
Why would it be? Why cannot it be human 'scent' as previous 3 times ( Gerry plus 2 officers)
How much probability that would be mathematically?


Again you are confused. Eddie alerted  once in the general area behnd the sofa, not three times for three specific areas. And you cant assert it was human blood when the handler himself doesnt offer that possibility. (But maybe he forgot to say!)

Hope thats all sorted now, as I wont be arguing over any of this with you anymore. God that was hard work
 

 Cheers.
Again your own opinion
.....