The 'arguido' interviews and the impact of lawyers advice.

[Angelo222]

I have never said anything different, in fact I was the one who brought up the subject of the word being translated to convey different meanings of the word according to the context of the stage in the judicial process in the first place. I have no problem with that, providing the word chosen conveys the meaning as closely as possible in the context.

What I was trying to point out is that the translation of "constituição de arguido" as "held as defendant" (done or arranged) by the PJ on their arguido form was incorrect.

I haven't found any indication as to who arranged the translation of the prosecutor's letter to the T7, but "offender" was even less correct in context.

Concerning Amaral, I had a glance at various court rulings. The term "arguido" seems to be used in court until the end of the appeals process. In his case, his conviction was upheld.

My broader point is simply to illustrate how language and cultural difficulties can lead to misunderstandings.

I have no problem with that.   

[Carana]

Instead of keeping that for yourself like a skeleton in the cupboard, why didn't you denounce what would appear a work of public salubrity and bring you the gratitude of all ?

I don't understand what you mean. Could you clarify?

[Matthew Wyse]

Not according to the Portuguese Police and it is their case on their patch.  SY are merely spectators when it comes down to it and that is all they will ever be. 

Given their record recently I wouldn't trust the YARD lot with a case of shoplifting.

[Angelo222]

Given their record recently I wouldn't trust the YARD lot with a case of shoplifting.

Absolutely Matt, their abuse of Barry George was appalling. 

[AnneGuedes]

I don't understand what you mean. Could you clarify?

You don't understand ?
You wrote "Reading through some of the comments here, I can't recall - offhand - instances of translations of the files that I have felt were deliberate mistranslations."
Couldn't you, instead of just accusing X of Y, try to recall those deliberate mistranslations, justify your point and correct mistakes that could mislead readers ?

[Carana]

You don't understand ?
You wrote "Reading through some of the comments here, I can't recall - offhand - instances of translations of the files that I have felt were deliberate mistranslations."
Couldn't you, instead of just accusing X of Y, try to recall those deliberate mistranslations, justify your point and correct mistakes that could mislead readers ?

- Which part of "I can't recall  - offhand - instances of translations of the files that I have felt were deliberate mistranslations" is causing you confusion?

- Who have I accused?

There may have been at some point, but I simply don't recall any.

[AnneGuedes]

There may have been at some point, but I simply don't recall any.

The "deliberate" is offensive. If you don't recall what's the point of suggesting ?

[sadie]

The "deliberate" is offensive. If you don't recall what's the point of suggesting ?

Anne,  I have hard copies of one such deliberate changing of meaning.  It is only minor, but it definitely changes the meaning, and it shouldn't have happened.  It happened later, so it was deliberate..  Not at the time of the actual translations

I am not prepared to share the document.

[Carana]

The "deliberate" is offensive. If you don't recall what's the point of suggesting ?

Let's try again, Anne.

I don't think anyone would deny that there have been mistakes and that sometimes sentences or passages have been left out.

The issue concerning the files was whether they were genuine mistakes, misunderstandings, word processor glitches, the translation of a draft instead of the final version... or whether there was a deliberate attempt to obfuscate.

As I've now said several times: I don't recall... deliberate ones. There may have been a few suspicious ones, but either I've forgotten about them, or didn't notice any.


ETA: I asked you who I've accused of deliberately mistranslating the files. Did I miss your reply?

[AnneGuedes]

Let's try again, Anne.

I don't think anyone would deny that there have been mistakes and that sometimes sentences or passages have been left out.

The issue concerning the files was whether they were genuine mistakes, misunderstandings, word processor glitches, the translation of a draft instead of the final version... or whether there was a deliberate attempt to obfuscate.

As I've now said several times: I don't recall... deliberate ones. There may have been a few suspicious ones, but either I've forgotten about them, or didn't notice any.

Carana, if you didn't notice or if you forgot your suspicions, then why mentioning that at all, instead of expressing your gratitude for the hard work translating the files has been ? Why not, positively, share your doubts concerning a (supposedly innocent) mistake ? That would show a certain consideration for the benevolent translators and they deserve it.
When Chinagirl and Gilet aggressively accuse systematically the translations to be bad quality ones just because the translators are not "professional" or are "misleading", your silence is like admitting they're right.
Chinagirl presented once an official translation of 2 or 3 sentences of the AG report as an example of the superiority of "professional" translations. I tried to demonstrate that Astro's translation was better. The conclusion was the second was "poor English" !
I don't recall you protested.
Gilet took advantage of a bad translation whose author she never revealed of Mr Amaral's book to accuse him of exactly the opposite of what he had written. The context discredited that biased interpretation but the evil had been spread that Mr Amaral deliberately used in his books elements that could hamper the search for Madeleine.
I don't recall you protested.

[faithlilly]

Anne,  I have hard copies of one such deliberate changing of meaning.  It is only minor, but it definitely changes the meaning, and it shouldn't have happened.  It happened later, so it was deliberate..  Not at the time of the actual translations

I am not prepared to share the document.

We'll believe you sadie 

[sadie]

We'll believe you sadie 

You make me laugh Faith. 

[ferryman]

Did we ever get to the root of why something outright fraudulent from Levy got in to the 'official' files?

[Carana]

Carana, if you didn't notice or if you forgot your suspicions, then why mentioning that at all, instead of expressing your gratitude for the hard work translating the files has been ? Why not, positively, share your doubts concerning a (supposedly innocent) mistake ? That would show a certain consideration for the benevolent translators and they deserve it.
When Chinagirl and Gilet aggressively accuse systematically the translations to be bad quality ones just because the translators are not "professional" or are "misleading", your silence is like admitting they're right.
Chinagirl presented once an official translation of 2 or 3 sentences of the AG report as an example of the superiority of "professional" translations. I tried to demonstrate that Astro's translation was better. The conclusion was the second was "poor English" !
I don't recall you protested.
Gilet took advantage of a bad translation whose author she never revealed of Mr Amaral's book to accuse him of exactly the opposite of what he had written. The context discredited that biased interpretation but the evil had been spread that Mr Amaral deliberately used in his books elements that could hamper the search for Madeleine.
I don't recall you protested.

Is that a roundabout way of saying that, in fact, you haven't found any instances of where I've accused anyone of a deliberate mistranslation of the files?

- How can you say that I've never expressed appreciation for the volunteer translators?

Personally, I find that the volunteer translators have made a huge effort. Without them many of us wouldn't have had a clue as to the content of the files.

There are, however, some mistakes and possibly more than one questionable instances of interpretation.

- If I notice a specific point on a translation issue, I'll comment if I've found anything that may help to clarify the point in question.

[AnneGuedes]

Is that a roundabout way of saying that, in fact, you haven't found any instances of where I've accused anyone of a deliberate mistranslation of the files?

- How can you say that I've never expressed appreciation for the volunteer translators?

- If I notice a specific point on a translation issue, I'll comment if I've found anything that may help to clarify the point in question.

My point was only your suggestion of deliberate mistakes you didn't recall, nothing more. I was rather curious to learn how you would eventually infer the deliberate aspect of the mistake.
Chinagirl's umpteenth remark about the "disastrous" translations just remembered me of your lack of reaction in two precise recent cases.
Now the issue is not to comment there are mistakes in the translations, nobody being perfect that's obvious, the issue is to point them and try to have them corrected.