Is the buried at sea theory a serious possibility?

[Lace]

If it was my child Ferryman I would never give up but and it is a sad but, one has to face the real possibility that she is no longer with us.

Six long years have now passed, there have never been any sightings of her and nobody has been identified as a suspect.  It does not look good.

I don't know how you can say 'there have never been any sightings of her'   there have been many reports of sightings,  whether or not it was Madeleine we will  never know with a lot of them.   The police came there was no child to see,   there was no footage on a camera,   they went away.   That doesn't mean it wasn't Madeleine does it?

I think the garage sighting of a child with a man is very believable.

[ferryman]

I am not disputing that ferryman. The question I asked was why did she feel that disposal at sea was more likely than other scenarios.

I'd have thought you'd have been intelligent enough to answer that for yourself.

Am I mistaken (in assuming you'd be intelligent enough to answer that for yourself)?

[sadie]

I have never laughed so much recently. What nonsense Sadie. 

There is no evidence that she didn't go into the sea just as there is nothing which points to her being alive after her disappearance.  You are just making that up for the sake of it Sadie and it is making you look really silly. 

The sighting by the Smiths is in itself evidence that the carrier was heading for the beach and the sea.  You even admitted this in another thread some time back.

No I am not making it up ... and it is up to you if you disbelieve me.  There are strong pointers; several.



Yep I think it quite possible that Madeleine was carried down to the tiny beach / rocky cove after the Smiths sighting, but not to be disposed of, but transferred to a larger boat by a small boat that came in to pick her up.  I believe this boat came in after a phone call, which was very probably made from the Staff Quarters .... but possibly from elsewhere.


It could have been this boat, but may not have been:
Excerpt from the Michael Shrimpton Report:

THE KIDNAP OF MADELEINE McCANN

16. In the afternoon of 3rd May the motor yacht Panic II, Dutch registry, owned by A (whose full details again have been communicated to AIVD in The Hague), pennant number P2006/39060, home port Hellevoetsluis Netherlands, built 1983, single-masted, single aluminium hull, length 10.2 metres, beam 3.3 metres, approximate standard displacement 3.5 tons, fitted it is believed with a 2-stroke diesel engine, positioned from Portimao, where she had arrived on the 1st, to Lagos. She waited there until about 1945Z, just before the marina was shut at 2000Z by lowering a lifting bridge, then moved out beyond the lifting bridge, where she was moored to a pontoon on the port side of the small canal leading to the open sea, where she waited.

SNIP / ---

According to the theory, Panic left Portimao at 21.15, having filed a destination of Albufeira. As no Albufeira record is on file she appears to gone past that port and on to Vilamoura where she arrived on 4 May, before leaving on 5 May to go back to Albufeira.
by Anon

Official Evidence of Michael Shrimpton's Report (http://rosaleen-thewhistler.blogspot.com/2009/08/official-evidence-of-michael-shrimptons.html)


If it were this Motor Yacht, it had suffivcient time to sail up the Atlantic coast to Sines and arrive there before dawn .... and sail back, quietly passing PdL and Lagos en route, to Vilamoura that same afternoon, 4th May 2007. 

Then the hop skip and a jump to Albufeira the next day.

Entirely plausible .... and timewise fits in perfectly with the Carlos Moreira sighting at a roadside snackbar on the N10, due east of Lisboa.  Have driven to both places and the times are totally feasible

Then it could, of course, be something to do with the Naomi Corlett, which some people find interesting., but altho there is interest in that, I dont have any timings or positionings to assess anything about it

Reputedly Sergey has connections with both boats .,.. is it tittle-tattle ? ....  or an attempt to frame him? .... or genuine?  How can we judge?

Or it could be some other boat altogether ... the name of which hasn't appeared on any websites that I am aware of



I see no reason to either believe, or disbelieve, Michael Shrimpton .... altho it is apparent his original document has been seriously altered, by silly additions, to make him appear a fool ... and devalue / undermine what he has said
,

[sadie]

I have never laughed so much recently. What nonsense Sadie. 

There is no evidence that she didn't go into the sea just as there is nothing which points to her being alive after her disappearance.  You are just making that up for the sake of it Sadie and it is making you look really silly. 

The sighting by the Smiths is in itself evidence that the carrier was heading for the beach and the sea.  You even admitted this in another thread some time back.

In the direction of the tiny cove or in an Easterly direction, Angelo.  Let's get it right.

[sadie]

If it was my child Ferryman I would never give up but and it is a sad but, one has to face the real possibility that she is no longer with us.

Six long years have now passed, there have never been any sightings of her and nobody has been identified as a suspect.  It does not look good.

No-body has been identified to US.  This is not PT; we do not normally parade our suspects in public.

[Benice]

In the direction of the tiny cove or in an Easterly direction, Angelo.  Let's get it right.

I think it's perfectly possible that Madeleine was removed by boat.  It was certainly the quickest way of getting her away from Portugal and eliminated the danger of being stopped at roadblocks.  I also think it is feasible that the abductor was holed up in a building somewhere waiting for instructions to take her to a boat at a pre arranged pick-up point and even possibly using that time to sedate her.   Hence the delay between the JT sighting and that of the Smiths, who saw a man heading in the direction of the beach.

[Angelo222]

No I am not making it up ... and it is up to you if you disbelieve me.  There are strong pointers; several.



Yep I think it quite possible that Madeleine was carried down to the tiny beach / rocky cove after the Smiths sighting, but not to be disposed of, but transferred to a larger boat by a small boat that came in to pick her up.  I believe this boat came in after a phone call, which was very probably made from the Staff Quarters .... but possibly from elsewhere.


It could have been this boat, but may not have been:
Excerpt from the Michael Shrimpton Report:

THE KIDNAP OF MADELEINE McCANN

16. In the afternoon of 3rd May the motor yacht Panic II, Dutch registry, owned by A (whose full details again have been communicated to AIVD in The Hague), pennant number P2006/39060, home port Hellevoetsluis Netherlands, built 1983, single-masted, single aluminium hull, length 10.2 metres, beam 3.3 metres, approximate standard displacement 3.5 tons, fitted it is believed with a 2-stroke diesel engine, positioned from Portimao, where she had arrived on the 1st, to Lagos. She waited there until about 1945Z, just before the marina was shut at 2000Z by lowering a lifting bridge, then moved out beyond the lifting bridge, where she was moored to a pontoon on the port side of the small canal leading to the open sea, where she waited.

SNIP / ---

According to the theory, Panic left Portimao at 21.15, having filed a destination of Albufeira. As no Albufeira record is on file she appears to gone past that port and on to Vilamoura where she arrived on 4 May, before leaving on 5 May to go back to Albufeira.
by Anon

Official Evidence of Michael Shrimpton's Report (http://rosaleen-thewhistler.blogspot.com/2009/08/official-evidence-of-michael-shrimptons.html)


If it were this Motor Yacht, it had suffivcient time to sail up the Atlantic coast to Sines and arrive there before dawn .... and sail back, quietly passing PdL and Lagos en route, to Vilamoura that same afternoon, 4th May 2007. 

Then the hop skip and a jump to Albufeira the next day.

Entirely plausible .... and timewise fits in perfectly with the Carlos Moreira sighting at a roadside snackbar on the N10, due east of Lisboa.  Have driven to both places and the times are totally feasible

Then it could, of course, be something to do with the Naomi Corlett, which some people find interesting., but altho there is interest in that, I dont have any timings or positionings to assess anything about it

Reputedly Sergey has connections with both boats .,.. is it tittle-tattle ? ....  or an attempt to frame him? .... or genuine?  How can we judge?

Or it could be some other boat altogether ... the name of which hasn't appeared on any websites that I am aware of



I see no reason to either believe, or disbelieve, Michael Shrimpton .... altho it is apparent his original document has been seriously altered, by silly additions, to make him appear a fool ... and devalue / undermine what he has said

This was all checked out by the PJ six years ago Sadie.  The owner of the Naomi Corlett confirmed that his yacht was not even in the area at the time.

Sergey was also checked out, he even had his phone bugged but the PJ could find nothing on him relating to Madeleine.  Back to the drawing board I'm afraid? 

[sadie]

This was all checked out by the PJ six years ago Sadie.  The owner of the Naomi Corlett confirmed that his yacht was not even in the area at the time.

Sergey was also checked out, he even had his phone bugged but the PJ could find nothing on him relating to Madeleine.  Back to the drawing board I'm afraid? 

Oh are you suggesting that we should trust Amaral on anything?  I dont.

Still other possibilities that I mentioned which could be so ... or Bernices suggestion is equally good.

Open your mind a little bit Angelo.

[Angelo222]

I don't know how you can say 'there have never been any sightings of her'   there have been many reports of sightings,  whether or not it was Madeleine we will  never know with a lot of them.   The police came there was no child to see,   there was no footage on a camera,   they went away.   That doesn't mean it wasn't Madeleine does it?

I think the garage sighting of a child with a man is very believable.

I can say that because there haven't been any sightings of Maddie!!   Every report was either false, mistaken or an attempt to extort money from the McCanns.  Nuff said.

[Lyall]

Sadie, I think you need to just wait and see what happens with the Met's investigation. You appear to be way too emotionally involved with this, and obsession really isn't healthy. Be careful.

Just wait and see? You are going way beyond the McCann's own investigations, and way beyond the contents of their book and their website - and there's surely good reasons for that.

Calm down

[puglove]

A shocking post shona.

I'm not sure if you mean Anne's original post, or my response. But, although I have huge misgivings about the McCanns, especially Gerry, I struggle when people make light of a situation that is every parents' worst nightmare. No wonder that you all feel so strongly. I understand where Stephen is coming from....basically, whatever happened to Madeleine is ultimately due to her parents. I'm sure that they weren't responsible for her death, but they WERE responsible for her loss. I also struggle with the fact that they seem to jump on the media bandwagon at every opportunity. Personally, I don't think that I would cope with the loss of a child as they did. And it breaks my heart that Kerry Needham never had the help, and high profile attention that the McCanns seem to milk at every opportunity. This is how I feel, nothing will change my mind, this is where I'm at. I'm sure they wouldn't have left their cash and jewellery on a bed for anyone to steal. And yes, I know that is not an original thought.

[John]

Please keep to the topic under discussion.

I have moved some posts from this thread but will reinstate them shortly under a new title.

[Lace]

I can say that because there haven't been any sightings of Maddie!!   Every report was either false, mistaken or an attempt to extort money from the McCanns.  Nuff said.

The sighting of the little girl in the garage with a man was neither, false, mistaken or an attempt to extort money from the McCann's.   Nuff said.

[John]

My own view on this is that it would be highly unlikely that any abductor would parade their victim in public, whether it be in a taxi or a garage.  If Madeleine was still alive after 3rd May 2007 she was well hidden and well away from prying eyes.

As for the theory that she was buried at sea which after all is the focus of this thread, it is a distinct possibility.

[sadie]

Sadie, I think you need to just wait and see what happens with the Met's investigation. You appear to be way too emotionally involved with this, and obsession really isn't healthy. Be careful.

Just wait and see? You are going way beyond the McCann's own investigations, and way beyond the contents of their book and their website - and there's surely good reasons for that.

Calm down

Yep, I have gone way, way past it. 

Here I have limited myself.   Just an odd theory here, and there, is just hopefully opening our perceptions and making us think more deeply

I am calm enough.  No worries there, but thankyou for your concern