Can patio door be clearly seen from the tapas bar?

[Sherlock Holmes]

No conifers there at all.  Someone wanted something hidden pretty quickly by the look of things.  Did they also want attention taken away from the Staff Quarters ? ....  cos there was talk on the internet (?3A's) that someone at the staff quarters could have watched The Tapas 9 from there ... maybe with binoculars?  >@@(*&)

Very interesting what you are saying, Sadie, about the tapas perhaps being watched from the staff quarters.

I have often wondered if there was someone watching T9 from inside the restaurant, or near it, viewing the table.

This, logically, would have been the most efficient way of monitoring T9 on the night - if all T9 were seated, then the coast to enter 5A would be clear.

There are two problems with the suggestion that the tapas bar/ table was being closely watched, however:

1. A watcher/ watchers spending a lot of time nearby or posing as a diner/diners, would be recollected by staff and others and keenly sought as witnesses after the event. Therefore too dangerous to watch from the bar area itself.

2. Apparently the table was not being watched on the night of the abduction itself, even though this would have seemed a sensible thing to do - if done so from a less vulnerable spot than another table - because key members of T9, including Gerry himself, were absent from the table at the time the abductor(s) chose to enter the apartment.

Can one see into the tapas from SQ in any detail with binoculars? In the dark?

Even if so, this couldn't have been done on the night.

[John]

The photo which the experts were using was taken from the tapas bar and not the tapas restaurant.  Here again is the same photo taken slightly further back behind one of the wooden poles.

[John]

In fact here is a still taken from the Martin Brunt Sky News clip which shows him seated in the tapas restaurant and the view to the apartment.





Or view video from 1.22

[stephen25000]

It was dark.

Visibility poor.

The group were facing in the other direction according to some accounts.

So how the hell could anybody see what was happening at the apartments  ?

Unless of course you believe in magic, have X-ray eyes which can also magnify images and see through solid objects, except Lead.

Even a man from Krypton would have difficulty in seeing the apartment.

Add to that the blatantly obvious, that could not know what is going on in the apartment, and with 3 young children, and as doctor's they would know this, skeletal tissue is developing, relatively soft and easily damaged, why would they leave them alone in an unlocked apartment, where a 'simple' accident could result in injury or death ?

[Benice]

The photo which the experts were using was taken from the tapas bar and not the tapas restaurant.  Here again is the same photo taken slightly further back behind one of the wooden poles.

I don't think the McCanns have ever claimed that they would be able to see someone entering 5a via the patio door have they?   IMO if that thought had ever crossed their minds they would not have left the door unlocked in the first place.

IMO the point they were trying to make was how close they were to the apartment especially in view of  some of the distances that were being quoted at the time i.e. 100yards - 200yards!  This photograph illustrates just how close they were - visually speaking. 

The very fact that they were sitting opposite their own apartment block - and could see part of their own apartment would pyschologically give them a sense of security IMO.    More so than if they were sitting much closer but in a place where they had no sight at all of 5a or the apartment block itself.   

[Lyall]

I don't think the McCanns have ever claimed that they would be able to see someone entering 5a via the patio door have they?   IMO if that thought had ever crossed their minds they would not have left the door unlocked in the first place.

No, they haven't. But Sadie does.

[Angelo222]

Clearly the answer to the opening post is that only the top of the patio door could be seen from where the tapas 9 group were seated in the restaurant but little else.  Certainly someone sneaking into the apartment by that route would not have been visible if they kept a low profile.  Exit by the front door would then be very easy.

[Carana]

Clearly the answer to the opening post is that only the top of the patio door could be seen from where the tapas 9 group were seated in the restaurant but little else.  Certainly someone sneaking into the apartment by that route would not have been visible if they kept a low profile.  Exit by the front door would then be very easy.

I find that plausible as well. Providing that the door could actually be opened without a key from the inside, then there would have been no need for one.

A bit riskier than entering via the front door, though.

An issue with entering via the patio is: would someone close the two gates behind them as well as risk being seen?

Offhand, I can't remember if Matt was asked how he found the gates.

[Lyall]

If he was I've a good idea what his answer would have been.

[sadie]

It might be accidental, but the photo from your video is not even taken from the Tapas Bar let alone from the Tapas Outside Restaurant where the group sat.  It is disinformation, a kind of false pretenses, cos it is from completely the wrong angle.


The group sat in the Tapas Outside Restaurant.  Johns photo was from the Tapas Bar, which is an understandable  mistake to make, but this photo is from even further west, not even from the Tapas Bar, it seems.   It appears to be from the grassed area beyond, or even from the ?concrete pathway leading to the kiddies pool.

Of course, it is a Hoho video, isn't it




Johns photo above from the tapas bar and Hoho's video photo below.  Neither is from the Outside Tapas Restaurant where the group sat. 

That is not the view they had of 5A.

[sadie]

Very interesting what you are saying, Sadie, about the tapas perhaps being watched from the staff quarters.

I have often wondered if there was someone watching T9 from inside the restaurant, or near it, viewing the table.

This, logically, would have been the most efficient way of monitoring T9 on the night - if all T9 were seated, then the coast to enter 5A would be clear.

There are two problems with the suggestion that the tapas bar/ table was being closely watched, however:

1. A watcher/ watchers spending a lot of time nearby or posing as a diner/diners, would be recollected by staff and others and keenly sought as witnesses after the event. Therefore too dangerous to watch from the bar area itself.

2. Apparently the table was not being watched on the night of the abduction itself, even though this would have seemed a sensible thing to do - if done so from a less vulnerable spot than another table - because key members of T9, including Gerry himself, were absent from the table at the time the abductor(s) chose to enter the apartment.

Can one see into the tapas from SQ in any detail with binoculars? In the dark?

Even if so, this couldn't have been done on the night.

Personally I think it unlikely they were watched from the Staff Quarters.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Personally I think it unlikely they were watched from the Staff Quarters.

Sorry, thought that was what you were getting at on a previous post. Must have misread.

I do think. however, it would have been a good idea to have been watching the tapas bar directly, somehow. If all T9 were seated, the Gerry/ Jez/ Jane scenario never would have taken place. Apparently no-one thought of that..

[sadie]

In fact here is a still taken from the Martin Brunt Sky News clip which shows him seated in the tapas restaurant and the view to the apartment.





Or view video from 1.22

Another irresponsible view in this video of the Outside Tapas Restaurant.  In this case taken from a spot several apartments further west

The filming is very bad inside the Outside Tapas Restaurant, probably because of poor lighting inside.  It is difficult to judge how much this might have altered the view outside.


I really resented Brunts intimation that Gerry was lying about the distance.  You cannot compare the distance walked to a crow flies distance.  And Gerry estimates were not so bad at IIRC 40 metres and 50 metres.  Please correct me if I have those wrong

IIRC it was Matt who estimated 50 metres to 100 metres  ... and someone else estimated 30 metres

[Lyall]

It is a Channel Four video Sadie, not HideHo's

[sadie]

Sorry, thought that was what you were getting at on a previous post. Must have misread.

I do think. however, it would have been a good idea to have been watching the tapas bar directly, somehow. If all T9 were seated, the Gerry/ Jez/ Jane scenario never would have taken place. Apparently no-one thought of that..

I have always thought that another good place to watch was along the alleyway between the apartments and the gardens.  Between the two blocks of flats there is a walkway down to that alleyway.  Seemed a good spot to watch who was eating anyhow, cos the watcher could walk off inn a western, a northern or an eastern direction, if someone appeared.

Anyhow, I am leaving it there.  It is taking up too much of my time... and my eyes are not good.  Plenty to mull over.... anyway 

ETA   OK, Lyall, it can be Channel 4's, but Hoho chose to use it .... and it is disinformation.  Full Stop !