Bad feelings, redundancies and defaced posters.

[mercury]

How many were stuck on houses?  Cite please.

Never asserted any were, youre missing the point

[sadie]

Never asserted any were, youre missing the point

You are twisting words mercury.

You said,

Even if true doubt their motivation was to stop the missing child being found as alledged
If a child was abducted from two doors down from your house would you be happy with endless years of posters being stuck on your house? Especially in a "circus" situation? And in a situation where the parents of said missing chikd were suspects? I doubt it very much

You intimated that the posters WERE stuck on houses.

In my book that is malpractice.  Twisting of words to make an untruth. 

[mercury]

You are twisting words mercury.

You said,
You intimated that the posters WERE stuck on houses.

In my book that is malpractice.  Twisting of words to make an untruth. 

It was an illustration, an example, most half intelligent people will have understood the reference.

[sadie]

It was an illustration, an example, most half intelligent people will have understood the reference.

No, they would not.

No houses had posters stuck to them to my knowledge ... nor to yours either it appears, cos you cant provide a cite.

Please do not make things up, it is misleading.

[Mr Gray]

What the papers wrote about me wasn't all lies.  Fortunately, they got some key bits correct, one being that I do not charge for tours.

Since the original source, The Mirror, had not spoken to me, they were forced to invent large chunks.  One example is that I take people inside the church, when I have never been inside the church in my life.

So the paper invented large chunks but you believe what is written in this case
You prove my point

[ShiningInLuz]

So the paper invented large chunks but you believe what is written in this case
You prove my point

You are digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole.

The Mirror never spoke to me and wrote a story from Manchester or London, or wherever the Mirror is based, but certainly not in Luz.

The 21 lay-offs article came from a reporter on the scene in Luz, and the same story is reported by other sources.  Easy to Google, but I dare say you will do as per norm and see no (McCann) evil.

21 people had good reason to feel anger towards the McCanns.  A McCann billboard got vandalised.

Bad feelings, redundancies and defaced posters.  The thread title says it all.

[Mr Gray]

You are digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole.

The Mirror never spoke to me and wrote a story from Manchester or London, or wherever the Mirror is based, but certainly not in Luz.

The 21 lay-offs article came from a reporter on the scene in Luz, and the same story is reported by other sources.  Easy to Google, but I dare say you will do as per norm and see no (McCann) evil.

21 people had good reason to feel anger towards the McCanns.  A McCann billboard got vandalised.

Bad feelings, redundancies and defaced posters.  The thread title says it all.

You have only given one cite to support redundancies
A tabloid
You don't know how reliable this story is
Simple
Most of us realise tabloids cannot be trusted

[Brietta]

You are digging yourself into a deeper and deeper hole.

The Mirror never spoke to me and wrote a story from Manchester or London, or wherever the Mirror is based, but certainly not in Luz.

The 21 lay-offs article came from a reporter on the scene in Luz, and the same story is reported by other sources.  Easy to Google, but I dare say you will do as per norm and see no (McCann) evil.

21 people had good reason to feel anger towards the McCanns.  A McCann billboard got vandalised.

Bad feelings, redundancies and defaced posters.  The thread title says it all.

There was a worldwide financial crash of the money markets occurring during the period under discussion.  To blame the effects of that on the local economy in Luz in relation to Madeleine's disappearance is in my opinion absolutely ludicrous.  It is more than likely that Mark Warner's venture into the Ocean Club was hit by the knock on collapse of the sub-prime mortgage debacle.

There is no excusing those in Luz who have taken it upon themselves to obstruct anything which may jog peoples' memories or even consciences.
Whatever the thoughts about Madeleine's parents ... she is the one who is being targeted by the vandalism.

Madeleine vanished from holiday accommodation in Luz.
The person or persons who took her may still have an association with Luz ... and these are the people who have the most to gain if Madeleine were to be erased from public consciousness as many would like her to be.

I vehemently disagree with you that anyone in Luz - let alone the twenty one you mention - have any reason whatsoever let alone a good one for feeling any anger towards the McCanns.

If anyone of your acquaintance is irrational enough to do so ... it might be worth asking how far that anger includes Madeleine particularly as the Luz Banksy is very keen to make sure her name is brought into disrepute or forgotten.

[ShiningInLuz]

You have only given one cite to support redundancies
A tabloid
You don't know how reliable this story is
Simple
Most of us realise tabloids cannot be trusted

As I said, if you are too lazy to Google it, you are too lazy.

[G-Unit]

There was a worldwide financial crash of the money markets occurring during the period under discussion.  To blame the effects of that on the local economy in Luz in relation to Madeleine's disappearance is in my opinion absolutely ludicrous.  It is more than likely that Mark Warner's venture into the Ocean Club was hit by the knock on collapse of the sub-prime mortgage debacle.

There is no excusing those in Luz who have taken it upon themselves to obstruct anything which may jog peoples' memories or even consciences.
Whatever the thoughts about Madeleine's parents ... she is the one who is being targeted by the vandalism.

Madeleine vanished from holiday accommodation in Luz.
The person or persons who took her may still have an association with Luz ... and these are the people who have the most to gain if Madeleine were to be erased from public consciousness as many would like her to be.

I vehemently disagree with you that anyone in Luz - let alone the twenty one you mention - have any reason whatsoever let alone a good one for feeling any anger towards the McCanns.

If anyone of your acquaintance is irrational enough to do so ... it might be worth asking how far that anger includes Madeleine particularly as the Luz Banksy is very keen to make sure her name is brought into disrepute or forgotten.

Whatever led to the failure of Mark Warner's foray into the Ocean Club, from a local perspective the problems were the result of the disappearance Madeleine McCann. Mark Warner seemed to share that 'ludicrous' opinion;

The holiday company at the centre of the Madeleine McCann disappearance has launched a legal action against its insurers to recover lost earnings.

Mark Warner says holidaymakers stayed away from its Praia da Luz resort in Portugal because of the huge media coverage of the disappearance of Madeleine, then aged three, almost two years ago.....The Mark Warner spokesman said yesterday: "It is a matter of public record that Mark Warner's bookings to Portugal were affected by events nearly two years ago
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/apr/04/madeleine-mcann-disappearance-holiday-resort

[ShiningInLuz]

There was a worldwide financial crash of the money markets occurring during the period under discussion.  To blame the effects of that on the local economy in Luz in relation to Madeleine's disappearance is in my opinion absolutely ludicrous.  It is more than likely that Mark Warner's venture into the Ocean Club was hit by the knock on collapse of the sub-prime mortgage debacle.

There is no excusing those in Luz who have taken it upon themselves to obstruct anything which may jog peoples' memories or even consciences.
Whatever the thoughts about Madeleine's parents ... she is the one who is being targeted by the vandalism.

Madeleine vanished from holiday accommodation in Luz.
The person or persons who took her may still have an association with Luz ... and these are the people who have the most to gain if Madeleine were to be erased from public consciousness as many would like her to be.

I vehemently disagree with you that anyone in Luz - let alone the twenty one you mention - have any reason whatsoever let alone a good one for feeling any anger towards the McCanns.

If anyone of your acquaintance is irrational enough to do so ... it might be worth asking how far that anger includes Madeleine particularly as the Luz Banksy is very keen to make sure her name is brought into disrepute or forgotten.

Personally, I have no idea what component of the OC issues was due to the Madeleine effect, though I doubt it was zero.

And, not having seen a lay-off letter, I cannot state with certainty that the letter started by linking the lay-offs to Madeleine.

However, McCann supporters in this thread seem remarkably devoid of empathy for the 21 people who suffered significantly as this time, with one even trying to deny it happened.

There was no absolute right of the McCanns to trample Luz underfoot then, just as there was no absolute right of Operation Grange to trample Luz underfoot in June 2014, make people arguidos based on what in July 2014, or haul 10 people to Faro and expose them to the media in Dec 2014.

If you think otherwise, you are seriously disconnected about what happens when significant numbers of people are made to suffer through no fault of their own.

The leaflets and posters of that time were dumb, in the extreme.  They were always likely to provoke hostility, and if Team McCann could not foresee that, it is yet another error on their part.

I did a blog entry on this subject without realising this thread existed.  I wish I had known because it would have saved me hours of effort and would have clarified quite a few points.

After reading this thread and a linked thread on the same subject, I am of the opinion the motivation for the defacement was not to prevent communication of information.  It doesn't achieve that because the poster is in Portuguese and anyone here would recognise that the number is 800 etc etc - a Freephone number.  The number could have been obliterated very easily but it wasn't.

There was no need to fleck Madeleine's photo with paint if the aim was to halt communication.

Therefore, I am now of the opinion that the act was designed to go through the media, thus ensuring the McCanns had to be aware of it.

It is a message from someone saying f off to the McCanns.

Whether you agree or disagree with the message, people who were fed up with or angry at the McCanns were entitled to their opinion.  The issue was how to express it.  The McCanns stuck posters up, without consulting the people of Luz.  Someone in Luz chose poster defacement to express their opinion of it.

The McCanns could have used the money to place the same 'advert' in one or more of the newspapers, reaching not just the Algarve but the whole of Portugal.  Instead, they chose to blitz Luz.  I wonder how much cooperation they expected to get from the people they were blitzing?  It was unthinking, uncaring, unfeeling.  A very poor choice indeed.

[sadie]

Personally, I have no idea what component of the OC issues was due to the Madeleine effect, though I doubt it was zero.

And, not having seen a lay-off letter, I cannot state with certainty that the letter started by linking the lay-offs to Madeleine.

However, McCann supporters in this thread seem remarkably devoid of empathy for the 21 people who suffered significantly as this time, with one even trying to deny it happened.

There was no absolute right of the McCanns to trample Luz underfoot then, just as there was no absolute right of Operation Grange to trample Luz underfoot in June 2014, make people arguidos based on what in July 2014, or haul 10 people to Faro and expose them to the media in Dec 2014.

If you think otherwise, you are seriously disconnected about what happens when significant numbers of people are made to suffer through no fault of their own.

The leaflets and posters of that time were dumb, in the extreme.  They were always likely to provoke hostility, and if Team McCann could not foresee that, it is yet another error on their part.

I did a blog entry on this subject without realising this thread existed.  I wish I had known because it would have saved me hours of effort and would have clarified quite a few points.

After reading this thread and a linked thread on the same subject, I am of the opinion the motivation for the defacement was not to prevent communication of information.  It doesn't achieve that because the poster is in Portuguese and anyone here would recognise that the number is 800 etc etc - a Freephone number.  The number could have been obliterated very easily but it wasn't.

There was no need to fleck Madeleine's photo with paint if the aim was to halt communication.

Therefore, I am now of the opinion that the act was designed to go through the media, thus ensuring the McCanns had to be aware of it.

It is a message from someone saying f off to the McCanns.

Whether you agree or disagree with the message, people who were fed up with or angry at the McCanns were entitled to their opinion.  The issue was how to express it.  The McCanns stuck posters up, without consulting the people of Luz.  Someone in Luz chose poster defacement to express their opinion of it.

The McCanns could have used the money to place the same 'advert' in one or more of the newspapers, reaching not just the Algarve but the whole of Portugal.  Instead, they chose to blitz Luz.  I wonder how much cooperation they expected to get from the people they were blitzing?  It was unthinking, uncaring, unfeeling.  A very poor choice indeed.

May I suggest that your comment is unthinking, uncaring, unfeeling. 
If you had lost a child, as I did, maybe you would understand the desperation better

Any reasonable person with any knowledge would have responded to the posters .... but perhaps not only were the posters unreadable in many cases BUT also seeing the venom that had been needed to destry them, perhaps they were too frightened to respond.

An opportunity lost.


Have you any suggestions as to how the Mccanns could  have satisfactirily consulted the people of Pdl ?  All suggestions on a stamp please.

The paint was thrown at the contact number ... and it did a damned good job of obliterating it.... before the vandal cleared off at the double.

Hard enough when driving along such a road to get the number without that splattered all over it.  The vandalism WAS designed to prevent people reporting anything they saw.  No doubt about it .

[Mr Gray]

Personally, I have no idea what component of the OC issues was due to the Madeleine effect, though I doubt it was zero.

And, not having seen a lay-off letter, I cannot state with certainty that the letter started by linking the lay-offs to Madeleine.

However, McCann supporters in this thread seem remarkably devoid of empathy for the 21 people who suffered significantly as this time, with one even trying to deny it happened.

There was no absolute right of the McCanns to trample Luz underfoot then, just as there was no absolute right of Operation Grange to trample Luz underfoot in June 2014, make people arguidos based on what in July 2014, or haul 10 people to Faro and expose them to the media in Dec 2014.

If you think otherwise, you are seriously disconnected about what happens when significant numbers of people are made to suffer through no fault of their own.

The leaflets and posters of that time were dumb, in the extreme.  They were always likely to provoke hostility, and if Team McCann could not foresee that, it is yet another error on their part.

I did a blog entry on this subject without realising this thread existed.  I wish I had known because it would have saved me hours of effort and would have clarified quite a few points.

After reading this thread and a linked thread on the same subject, I am of the opinion the motivation for the defacement was not to prevent communication of information.  It doesn't achieve that because the poster is in Portuguese and anyone here would recognise that the number is 800 etc etc - a Freephone number.  The number could have been obliterated very easily but it wasn't.

There was no need to fleck Madeleine's photo with paint if the aim was to halt communication.

Therefore, I am now of the opinion that the act was designed to go through the media, thus ensuring the McCanns had to be aware of it.

It is a message from someone saying f off to the McCanns.

Whether you agree or disagree with the message, people who were fed up with or angry at the McCanns were entitled to their opinion.  The issue was how to express it.  The McCanns stuck posters up, without consulting the people of Luz.  Someone in Luz chose poster defacement to express their opinion of it.

The McCanns could have used the money to place the same 'advert' in one or more of the newspapers, reaching not just the Algarve but the whole of Portugal.  Instead, they chose to blitz Luz.  I wonder how much cooperation they expected to get from the people they were blitzing?  It was unthinking, uncaring, unfeeling.  A very poor choice indeed.

Equating the loss of a job to the loss of a child
I'm surprised the McCanns didn't jump at the chance of working with you

[ShiningInLuz]

May I suggest that your comment is unthinking, uncaring, unfeeling. 
If you had lost a child, as I did, maybe you would understand the desperation better

Any reasonable person with any knowledge would have responded to the posters .... but perhaps not only were the posters unreadable in many cases BUT also seeing the venom that had been needed to destry them, perhaps they were too frightened to respond.

An opportunity lost.

Have you any suggestions as to how the Mccanns could  have satisfactirily consulted the people of Pdl ?  All suggestions on a stamp please.

The paint was thrown at the contact number ... and it did a damned good job of obliterating it.... before the vandal cleared off at the double.

Hard enough when driving along such a road to get the number without that splattered all over it.  The vandalism WAS designed to prevent people reporting anything they saw.  No doubt about it .

Since you repeatedly request other to stick to facts, let's see what the facts are.

I have not seen 'other posters'.  If you have, then kindly post them or a link.  If not, speculation about other posters is simply speculation.

In the absence of such, we have the single OP billboard at Valverde, east of Luz.  It is in Portuguese and has a Portuguese phone number to contact.  That number is (8)00 814 028.  Only the 8 is close to full obliteration and the rest of the number is clearly visible.

Anyone Portuguese, or able to read Portuguese would recognise it as a Portuguese Freephone number.  Portuguese Freephone numbers all start 800. 

The important part for communication is the 6 digits that follow 814 028.  Obliterate, say, 3 or those, and communication would be prevented.  Yet no such attempt was made.  They are perfectly clear.

To prevent communication, there was no need to spatter Madeleine's photo.

The idea that the vandalism would scare someone into not communicating is pure speculation.  IMO, trying to scare off some unknown person to prevent them using a Freephone contact number is a weak concept.

May I ask you, if you want the help of someone do you alienate them before doing so?  Were the McCann's smart in dumping on Luz whilst asking for the help of Luz citizens?  In 'Madeleine was here', Kate makes clear that she knew Luz was suffering.  Do you think it was wise to impose more suffering, whilst asking for help from those suffering?  IMO, you do not kick someone then ask if they will help you. The McCann's thought otherwise.

Contact method from the McCann's to Luz was easy.  In 'Madeleine was here', it seems some of the locals were present, along with a large media crowd, when Gerry went to apartment 5A.  That means Gerry's visit to Luz was advertised.  Tough cookie about the impact on Luz, and Gerry did not have the decency to interact with the citizens who turned up.  Communication would be one-way, as per usual, with Clarence berating the citizens of Luz for their misdeeds.

Luz has a mayor and a town hall, as anyone can establish very easily.  So, was the mayor consulted?  It would seem not.  Was the suggestion made that perhaps a meeting in the town hall would be a good chance to talk to the citizens of Luz about the posters and the documentary?  Nope, Team McCann demonstrated utter disregard for the citizens of Luz.

Did Team McCann put these events on their website and invite feedback?  No, from Fortress Rothley it was decided that this type of inclusive approach was not the way to go.  Stuff the citizens of Luz.

Perhaps Edgar was an influence in this.  In the documentary, he states that it is necessary to do a reconstruction in Luz because that is where the incident occurred.  OG seems to have thought much the same.  I wonder if Rebelo ever watched 'Madeleine was here', and if so, what he thought of it.

It was dumb.  One does not alienate people one wants help from.  Unthinking, unfeeling, uncaring.

The 800 phone number is still up on the Find Madeleine website.  I wonder if anyone answers.

21 people out of a job.  Why is it there seems to be no empathy from McCann supporters for them?  And the number of restaurants and cafés that have closed.  Is there no empathy for them?  Does empathy start and end with the McCanns?

[sadie]

Equating the loss of a job to the loss of a child
I'm surprised the McCanns didn't jump at the chance of working with you

Are you wondering what I am wondering davel ?