Are Amaral's views the best for a missing child case?

[Lyall]

That is why it should be a police-managed campaign. They can guide the public better than the emotional and desperate parents who will plead and beg that every scrap of information, however miniscule the connection to the child might be, should be sent in.

That is how our Police in the UK, for example, handle the situation. They ask for specific kinds of information which have most relevance. And we do not find UK police simply shrugging their shoulders and saying that the task is a waste of effort and money. They go that step further for missing children.

There are plenty who say the police made a lot of mistakes in the recent case in Wales. They also made mistakes in the Soham case, and had to ask for help eventually.

The task is not as easy as you are thinking.

[Lyall]

It most certainly is not an easy job.

But the logical conclusion from Amaral's remarks is that campaigns to involve the public are a waste of time and effort. That simply is not true as shown by the two cases (there are more I can post) where such campaigns have had resounding success.

Do you think UK police would agree with Amaral or do you think they would want such campaigns to take place?

Do you agree with Amaral or do you think such campaigns are valuable?

And do you agree that they are best managed by the police and it was this lack of police leadership which caused some of the problems in the McCann case?

You said it yourself - police appeal to the public when they have specific information to relate or something specific to ask for.

I've no doubt Portuguese police do the same.

I've also no doubt they will admit mistakes were made in this case. But I suspect you won't agree that a considerable factor in that was the British media - online and their presence in Portugal.

[Lyall]

I am not thinking it is easy at all. It is probably one of the most difficult tasks in policing but it is not (in my view) as Amaral says a waste of time and money.

Don't forget Madeleine's picture was all over the internet within a day. Police had already lost control by that point.

[Angelo222]

As Anne is French I understand that translations would be difficult.

Which is why I don't accept her reports.

Thank you for saying we can say pro or anti. I thought that was unacceptable here.

I bet you read them though!!  Such a hypocrite.

[Angelo222]

Two things are true when it comes to the abduction of very young children.

1. More often than not it is a family member who is involved.

2. They are seldom found alive if gone for any length of time.


I will add, I don't believe there has ever been a case where a 3 year old western child has disappeared and been found alive 6 or more years later.  It just doesn't happen which renders SY's comments weak as water.

[gilet]

Don't forget Madeleine's picture was all over the internet within a day. Police had already lost control by that point.

Exactly.
Police should have taken control from the first hour, not simply lose control of the situation entirely.
There was no attempt to control anything by the police, they just let it all happen.
And when two parents are desperate to find a missing child and can see that the police are doing nothing but sending out a press release, not arranging online appeals etc, then its hardly surprising that those parents take things into their own hands is it?

[gilet]

Two things are true when it comes to the abduction of very young children.

1. More often than not it is a family member who is involved.

2. They are seldom found alive if gone for any length of time.


I will add, I don't believe there has ever been a case where a 3 year old western child has disappeared and been found alive 6 or more years later.  It just doesn't happen which renders SY's comments weak as water.

None of that is actually relevant to this topic.

The question is do you believe, as Amaral tells us he and his colleagues do, that the effort made by police having to sift through all the information from a public appeal is worthless? Should we, on that basis, not allow public appeals for missing children of any age?

When there are clear examples of the success of such appeals then I think he is wrong and that the effort is of great value.

[TTSOFAFM]

Two things are true when it comes to the abduction of very young children.

1. More often than not it is a family member who is involved.

2. They are seldom found alive if gone for any length of time.


I will add, I don't believe there has ever been a case where a 3 year old western child has disappeared and been found alive 6 or more years later.  It just doesn't happen which renders SY's comments weak as water.

How about a 7 year old child?  Who would have been just 3 years older than Madeleine.

From the Steven Stayner Foundation

"When it comes to finding abducted children, most people think of posters and milk cartons.  Photographs are very important in finding abducted children.  But to depend on pictures alone is a big mistake.

    "That is because the pictures may not reach the isolated areas where abductors take children, but also because children change and abductors can easily change a child's appearance.

    "I believe the single most important thing you can do to help find abducted children is to be aware of the problem and keep an eye out for suspicious 'family' situations around you.

    "For starters, many abductors are men appearing as single parents, with one child.  They intentionally choose to live in isolated areas and are generally not socially active.

    "You should know that the first thing abductors often do is convince the child that their parents don't want them.  My abductor faked phone calls to my parents.  He actually told me he went to court to get legal custody.  I was seven.  I had nowhere else to turn.  I eventually accepted the lie as reality.

    "The next stage was adapting for survival.  This meant doing anything to avoid punishment.  I actually helped my abductor keep the secret.

    "So don't expect abducted children to come up and ask for help.  They're totally dependent on their abductors.  And if they're being sexually abused, which is usually the case, the last thing they want is to draw attention to it.

    "I trusted no one.  My greatest fear was that someone would find out the truth and confront my 'father'.  I didn't know what he'd do.  As bad as things were, I knew it could get worse.

    "To survive, abducted children must learn to lie.  When people would ask me about my past, I made it up.  I now assume people knew I was lying, but no one ever tried to find out why.

    "Throughout the seven years, we were constantly moving.  We lived in five different towns, in a dozen houses and trailer homes.  The minute my abductor felt people were getting too close, we'd pack up.  That kind of movement is typical of abductions.  So is a child who's not enrolled in school.

    "My abductor was careful and made sure I was always enrolled.  If people paid attention to my relationship with my 'father' there were clues that something was wrong.  It was not a normal father-son relationship.  And among other things, at 13, I was taller than, and looked nothing like, my 'father'.
 
  "You should know that most abductors are pedophiles, not psychotic killers.  They don't have good relationships with adults.  They start out molesting children and graduate to longer abductions.  And when they murder children, often it's to get rid of the evidence.

   "As is often the case, there were people involved with my abductor who knew the truth.  These people could have saved me at any time, but were afraid of legal trouble.  You should know that in other cases where people have come forward to save a child, they have not been prosecuted.  These people often hold the power of life and death.

    "Before I was grabbed, my abductor had been convicted of child molesting.  Throughout my abduction, he never stopped molesting other children.  Even so, after taking me from my home, abusing me for seven years and abducting another 5-year old, he served only three and one-half years in jail.

    "Today, no one knows how many missing children are dead or how many now live as I did.  But if you're going to help, you have to be aware of the real nature of stranger abduction and be committed to helping children.  While it may be hard for you to tell an abducted child from an abused child, it's not hard to tell a child in trouble.  And it's not hard to do something about it.  If you know of, or suspect, there's a situation where a child is in trouble, please call the police."

http://www.stevenstaynerfoundation.com/stevens-legacy.php

[Redblossom]

OK from the OP, this is, I assume the relevant passage from the link given to Amarals book


During this time, the Leicestershire police continue to receive a considerable number of enquiries that they have trouble sorting and analysing. On May 15th, inspector Ricardo Paiva is sent as reinforcement to the English, who, he says, welcome him warmly and feed him on tea and cakes. Most of the bits of information received from all over the world are of no interest; so, there is no reason for follow-up. People allegedly recognise Madeleine or claim to know exactly where she is, seers, clairvoyants send very confused messages to the police, some well-intentioned, others less so... Rapidly, the sophisticated computer system for managing calls is overloaded. So much effort and so much money spent financing the appeals in the press for witnesses leaves us wondering; we are not convinced of the pertinence of this method that consists of requesting help from the population to resolve a case.

perhaps this extract from the Legal Summary explains things and ia not a statement about whether there should be publicity or not, but that it should be controlled!

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/LEGAL_SUMMARY.htm

During the following days, with the participation of more than 100 PJ investigators, the enormous amount of diverse news about the disappearance was explored, numerous inquiries being carried out.
 
With the multiplication of supposed sightings and locations, Apenso V was opened to systemise the reports indicating the alleged presence of the girl in various locations around the world as well as the hundreds of inquiries made to confithem. This annex is composed of 14 volumes.
 
The disappearance of the British girl, under the circumstances mentioned previously, implied the involvement of the most diverse entities, especially the intervention of the PJ, which was joined by other police authorities. In parallel, this disappearance drew the unprecedented attention of the national and international media, with particular emphasis in the UK during the following days in their peak hour news bulletins, with live reporting from Praia da Luz, as well as programmes specially dedicated to the issue.
 
Meanwhile, the girl’s parents dedicated themselves to making the most diverse contacts and appeals, divulging images of Madeleine, whilst the British authorities opened a permanent and specialised contact line in order to gather information regarding the disappearance, in addition to information from Interpol and other police partners.
 
This activity (divulgation), as well as the informative aspects coming from the media, aimed to obtain, within the shortest possible period of time, information that would help the investigation in two ways: finding Madeleine alive and the compilation of material concerning the concrete circumstances of her disappearance.
 
The public’s desire to collaborate meant that by means of the most diverse sources and varying means, focussed mainly upon communications directly sent to the police, the PJ received the most varied information.
 
From 04-05-2007 onwards, initially with a disproportionate rhythm, the PJ was sent thousands of reports of sightings and locations covering the whole of Portugal and multiple locations abroad, from neighbouring Spain to faraway Indonesia and Singapore, the missing girl having been “recognised” in the most varied locations, in multiple situations and company, in such a way that one the same day she was supposedly sighted in locations at a distance of 4.000 km apart.
 
Some of the information was lacking in any credibility because of the circumstances involved, the remaining information requiring systematisation and due follow-up.
 
 
There is a remaining diffused “stain” of sightings and locations (some gaining media coverage, such as those in Belgium and Morocco) that contained scarce, vague, contradictory, incompatible or incongruent elements that merited a treatment whereby, in the future, linked to more solid elements, they could be touched on and resuscitated, and which are also contained in the files.
 
Those that due to their geography and spatial-time relevance, could be credible were duly explored and included in the main body of the files and respective annex.

[Carana]

Only the McCann didn't see the press release that the PJ made early morning in the 4th of May, alerting for the disappearance of the child and with the exhibition of a picture, that was kept for months.
What the PJ condemned was the release of specific traits like the eye, the brown spot in one of the legs,...because it could lead the "abductor" to harm the child.

Then why does the PJ website post distinguishing features of missing people?

[Lyall]

Then why does the PJ website post distinguishing features of missing people?

Do you not agree there's a difference between information on a police website and worldwide professional publicity campaigns?

[Carana]

How about a 7 year old child?  Who would have been just 3 years older than Madeleine.

From the Steven Stayner Foundation

http://www.stevenstaynerfoundation.com/stevens-legacy.php

I find this bit important:

  "As is often the case, there were people involved with my abductor who knew the truth.  These people could have saved me at any time, but were afraid of legal trouble.  You should know that in other cases where people have come forward to save a child, they have not been prosecuted.  These people often hold the power of life and death.

[gilet]

Then why does the PJ website post distinguishing features of missing people?

A very good question and when combined with the fact that it was in fact the PJ who first released the information about Madeleine's eye, makes Luz's post sound rather ridiculous.

[gilet]

Do you not agree there's a difference between information on a police website and worldwide professional publicity campaigns?

In general there is a massive difference between these two things. But not in this situation.

Don't you think that it quite possible that a concerned abductor would be specifically monitoring everything he could see that the police were doing/saying? In that case the website is as equally crucial as other media.

[gilet]

I find this bit important:

  "As is often the case, there were people involved with my abductor who knew the truth.  These people could have saved me at any time, but were afraid of legal trouble.  You should know that in other cases where people have come forward to save a child, they have not been prosecuted.  These people often hold the power of life and death.

Extremely important.