Other witnesses cast doubt on Bundleman sighting?

[Lyall]

From memory I don't think they said anything that could have broken the JS act though.

You would say that though. 

[carlymichelle]

Does that last paragraph make sense ?

it does to me im saying if  the mcanns  had been   responsible parents and   been with the kids  24/7 ( after all they were3 kids under   4) none of this would still be being talked about now

[Lyall]

From memory I don't think they said anything that could have broken the JS act though.

ITV made a programme that attempted to rubbish the police evidence. When had that ever happened before during an ongoing investigation?

[Redblossom]

ITV made a programme that attempted to rubbish the police evidence. When had that ever happened before during an ongoing investigation?

Both bbc and itv documentaries broke the judicial secrecy by the tapas 9 and and in another instance involving rachel oldfield being interviewed on radio......

[blonk]

maybe its just ME but the whole bunch knew about tanners sighting even writing it down in the handwritten timelines thing

The 'handwritten timelines thing' was actually TWO timelines which said slightly different things, but BOTH said that Jane Tanner had seen a man carrying a child away from Apartment G5A at about 9.15pm on 3 May 2007. These were written by Russell O'Brien within two hours of Madeleine's reported disappearance. Moreover, these 'handwritten timelines things' were written on the cover of a Sainsbury's Activity Sticker Book of Madeleine's, which one of the 'Tapas 9' (O'Brien or someone else) had ripped off. As this was Madeleine's own book, it is reasonable to infer that Gerry or Kate McCann gave permission or at the very least knew about this timeline being written on their daughter's sticker book.

On pages 328-9 of her book 'Madeleine', Kate McCann makes it plain that she remains 100% sure that Jane Tanner really did see a man carrying off Madeleine from her apartment. This makes it all the stranger that the McCanns' chief private investigator, Dave Edgar from Crewe, at a press conference in August 2009 called to discuss a 'Victoria Beckham-lookalike' who was said to have been asking about 'her new daughter' on a Barcelona quayside at 2am, said that Jane Tanner 'might have seen a woman'.

Kate McCann adds that the 'sighting' of a man allegedly seen by Irishman Martin Smith at about 10.00pm on 3 May 2007 carrying a young child may be another sighting of the abductor, probably making him the first abductor in world history to have wandered around a tourist resort for three quarters of an hour wondering what to do with an abducted child. Although Jane Tanner's description was of a man with 'long, black hair' while Smith said he had 'short, brown hair', Kate spends five pages of her book (pp. 328-9 and 370-2) strenuously arguing that it was the same man. As Kate herself writes (p. 328): "Who knows why there was a forty-five minute gap between the two sightings, or where this man might have been in between?"

In evaluating Jane Tanner's evidence, there are quite a few other factors for us to consider, including:

1) several changes in her story

2) more detail being provided in her second and subsequent statements (contrary to the general principle that memory fades)

3) her excessively rambling Rogatory interviews, full of 'erms', 'you knows', 'ums', 'sort ofs' and so forth

4) her adamant insistence on 13 May 2007 that Robert Muarat was the man she'd seen carrying away a child on 3 May 2007

5) her later denial in January 2008 that it was Murat that she'd seen

6) claiming that 'Cooperman' and 'bundleman' were probably one and the same, even though she admitted she'd never seen 'bundleman's face.   

[AnneGuedes]

What do you say about the Pontins/Butlins method of a nanny cycling up and down the chalets to report children cyring, Anne?

J'attend ton avis <I await your opinion>

Rachel, shall I list all the horrible things that can, hopefully will not, happen when little children are left alone ? Do you want to wake up in the dead of night screaming ?

[sadie]

So no hearing of a chat in Francisco Gentil Martins and, mainly, no spotting of 2 men and a pushchair on the other side of the street.

Have you forgotten which side of the street they were on Anne?

[Jacinta]

Have you forgotten which side of the street they were on Anne?

I watched the documentary "Madeleine was here" and even Gerry McCann argued with Jane Tanner about who was standing where. The only person who seems to know for sure is Jeremy Wilkins who sketched a map and marked an 'x' outside the gate that leads to the McCann apartment for clarification.

[comperedna]

Just a small thing... I invite anyone to try and carry 'a bundle' even half the weight of an almost four year old child with arms outstretched in the manner endorsed by Jane.  See how far you get...

[Jacinta]

This thread has gone off topic so to try and bring it back:

Hayley May Crawford, Bar Worker (Ocean Club)

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/HAYLEY-CRAWFORD.htm

When asked, the witness clarifies that on the day of Madeleine’s disappearance (03 May 2007) she was with her boyfriend at her home, situated in Lagos, saying that he, Nuno Conceicao, is also an Ocean Club employee, carrying out various maintenance functions in the resort But she says that, for this reason, her boyfriend is in permanent service, in other words that even when he has a day off he can be contacted in case it is necessary to carry out any type of maintenance service in any apartment or other installations of the tourist resort in question. In this way she explains that on the day in question (03.05.07) at around 20h30, her boyfriend was called as there was a problem with a lock in an apartment situated in the northern part of the resort, close to the Millennium restaurant and she had accompanied her boyfriend in her car from her home in Lagos to the apartment in question.
After her boyfriend had completed the service, at about 21H00, they went to the resort reception with the aim of her boyfriend collecting a service vehicle.
 
For this purpose, the witness and her boyfriend travelled in her car, a Peugeot model 106, metallic grey in colour, along various roads of the resort, having taken the road adjacent to the pool and Tapas restaurant area, passing by the apartment where Madeleine and her family were staying, according to what she was subsequently informed about the location.
 
When questioned, the witness states that when she travelled along the roads in question, which make up the resort, and principally those which she later learnt were adjacent to the apartment where Madeleine was staying and disappeared from, close to the Tapas restaurant, which she did at about 21H00, (03 May, 2007) the witness states that she saw no vehicle, person or other situation that she considered suspicious that could be directly or indirectly related to the facts being investigated.
 
When asked, the witness states that after her boyfriend had collected a service vehicle, from the Ocean Club reception, which took place at about 21H00, they both went to her home, but in separate vehicles, arriving at about 21H15.
 
The witness states that she was off work on last Wednesday and Thursday, as was her boyfriend.
 
At about 22H30, her boyfriend received another telephone call from a colleague, asking for a flashlight, as a female child had disappeared, to which he responded that he did not have one, both remaining at the witness’s home until the next day.
She only became aware of the events on Friday morning when she returned to work.
When asked, she states that has no knowledge of any individual or vehicle in the immediate areas of the resort whom she considered suspicious or who drew her attention.
As regards the disappearance, she states that she felt shocked, as it was the first time that anything like this had occurred at the Ocean Club.

Redblossom posted:

Here is another statement from the resident/owner of the flat two floors above the Mccanns holiday apartment, she too saw or heard nothing from her balcony around the time

Mind you IF an abduction  took place it could have been so quick no one would notice even if they were there staring at the time....if nothing  suspicious was seen


Question: This is a story you've followed incredibly closely because you were involved on the night; you helped the police and the family in looking for Madeleine, didn't you?
 
Susan Moyes: Yes, we did and, yes, very, very concerned... concerned for the family and followed it, every day... every day.
 
Q: Can you take us back to that night and... and what you were doing and when you first heard there was a problem?
 
SM: Sure. We went out for a meal about 7 o'clock, down in the town, we walked back about 9 o'clock, round past, errm... the... the church, round past the supermarket, back to the apartment, went out on the balcony about quarter past nine - everywhere was peaceful, everywhere was lovely - we then went to bed.
 
We were woken up at half past eleven at night by one of the friends of the McCanns to say 'a little girl' had 'been abducted'; those... those were the words used. So, we got dressed and joined in the search, we were out until about four in the morning with, oooh… about, I don't know, thirty people... thirty other people, maybe. The Mark Warner team were out, errm... and other guests at the Ocean Club.

And then there's Jeremy Wilkins who states that he saw Jane Tanner when leaving his apartment block between 8.15 and 8.30pm.

In his 3rd statement to British police (8th April 2008) he states:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm

“Q. Relative to whether I know Jane Tanner;

Jeremy Wilkins: 'Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.'

Jes Wilkins first ventured out of his apartment between 8.15pm and 8.30pm.

I combined his times because of his statements:

Statement one (07 April 2007): 8.15pm – 8.30
Statement two (31 October 2007): 'about 2015hrs;
Statement three (08 April 2008): 'around 2030hrs'

In the documentary “Madeleine was here” Gerry McCann debates with Jane Tanner who was standing where. He said he was standing on the other side of the street to his apartment.

See the post above with the map sketch and 'x' marked to donate where Jeremy Wilkins said he and Gerry McCann was standing.

[Redblossom]

hi Jacinta, what relevance has Wilkins seeing Tanner at 8.30?

[DCI]

And then there's Jeremy Wilkins who states that he saw Jane Tanner when leaving his apartment block between 8.15 and 8.30pm.

In his 3rd statement to British police (8th April 2008) he states:
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/JEREMY-WILKINS-ROGATORY.htm

Jes Wilkins first ventured out of his apartment between 8.15pm and 8.30pm.

I combined his times because of his statements:

Statement one (07 April 2007): 8.15pm – 8.30
Statement two (31 October 2007): 'about 2015hrs;
Statement three (08 April 2008): 'around 2030hrs'

I think you have the dates wrong, Jacinta?

JEREMY WILKINS HOLIDAY MAKER 07 MAY 07 
JEREMY WILKINS MAKE 07 APRIL 08 ROGATORY

LEICESTERSHIRE CONSTABULARY
OFFICER'S REPORT

Date: 05/11/07

During the evening of Wednesday 31 October 2007, Jeremy and Bridget were visited at their home address by DC 1756 and DC 4356 from the Leicestershire Op Task team.

[Jacinta]

I think you have the dates wrong, Jacinta?

JEREMY WILKINS HOLIDAY MAKER 07 MAY 07 
JEREMY WILKINS MAKE 07 APRIL 08 ROGATORY

LEICESTERSHIRE CONSTABULARY
OFFICER'S REPORT

Date: 05/11/07

During the evening of Wednesday 31 October 2007, Jeremy and Bridget were visited at their home address by DC 1756 and DC 4356 from the Leicestershire Op Task team.

You could be right DCI. I will check my notes and links properly on Monday and get back to you. I apologise if I'm wrong.

Redblossom, will also get back to you Monday.

[DCI]

You could be right DCI. I will check my notes and links properly on Monday and get back to you. I apologise if I'm wrong.

Redblossom, will also get back to you Monday.

You have 1st statement as 07 April 2007 

[Jacinta]

You have 1st statement as 07 April 2007 

LOL DCI, you're right about me being wrong regards the dates  (insert blushing emoticon here).

I've now had time to check my notes against the link where I originally got the information from.

Correct information as follows:

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id327.html

Statement of Jeremy Wilkins
Date 7/5/07
Our son was awake and unable to sleep. I decided to take him for a walk in his pram. I left about 8.15 pm – 8.30 pm.  

From: DC 1756 Mike Marshall regarding Jeremy Wilkins and Bridget O'Donnell
Date: 05/11/07
Their son was unable to sleep so about 2015hrs ...

Testimony: Jeremy Wilkins
Date: 8 April 2008
 I believe that I left the apartment around 20h30. I calculate that I met Gerry on the road between 20h45 and 21h15...

...I walked via the lower street, looked to the building block where the McCann apartment was situated and saw a woman dressed in purple clothing. I referred to this woman in relation to the questions asked by Jane Tanner. 

...Now I know her name, description of the clothes and photos which I have seen in the press. At that time I knew of her as a member of the group but did not know her name. I do not remember having seen her when I spoke with Gerry, but I believe I saw her when I first ventured out. She was stopped on the street in front of one of the group's apartments when I passed her down towards the exit to my apartment. I do not know if it was her apartment or not. I remember that she was wearing the colour purple.