Was the refusal to partake in a reconstruction to their detriment?

[stephen25000]

And yet another swerve.  I understand now why I stopped responding to you before.  You truly are unable to answer any sensible point put to you, aren't you?  Instead you rely on dropping in little irrelevancies laced with what you think are cleverly hidden insults and then skip on to the next point without ever addressing the issues.  I'm pretty sure it won't be long before you're dealt with again. In the meantime, talk to the hand.

 

[Redblossom]

Dont recall the PJ forcing anyne to do anything.....quite the opposite, they corresponded politely and in full over and over  to questions and fears, tried to accommodate the tapas group as best they could, gave various reassurances...i suppose i understand whythey stopped short at agreeing to requests to lift the mccanns arguido status before they would agree to return
 

[Redblossom]

Poor comprehension I am afraid.
I did not say that the PJ did anything outside their powers. Merely pointed out that some here would like a fascist approach where the State controlled individual behaviour.

No, but you brought the subject up in relation to the non cooperation of the tapas group with the police and I cant see any posts which suggest the tapas group should have been forced back and again no one even attempted to do so, yes, the PJ acted within the law....

[Redblossom]

C.Edwards said:

" If the investigating force ask persons directly involved/of interest to do something to assist the investigation then who are those people - who are "cooperating fully" remember - to question the reasons?"

That assumes the State is right to require citizens to do this. The answer to the "Who are these people?" is "Free citizens exercising their right to decline."

Now to one side that may look like obstructing and enquiry, but to the other it might look like refusing to be involved in a Police framing.

On balance it is more obstructing as the reassurances put in place,  the legal bods that would be around,  I dont see how the police could have framed them by their restepping their own statements!

To go back to the OP yes it was to all their detriments...crowing we will do anything and when asked said no

[Lyall]

Police with a convicting mindset will always take advantage.

It was their right to refuse to become involved in what they saw as overbearing, useless and potentially a stitch up.

Their right to take that decision yes. But the public has the right to not be impressed.

[Lyall]

The public may or may not be impressed. It does not matter.

It is right that people should have such liberties.

The public are not impressed that we no longer hang people; the public are not impressed that we allow people the right to silence; the public would happily harm unpopular possible miscreants without allowing a trial; the public are often possessed of unacceptable values that are not appropriate to modern society.

Public opinion may not matter to you, but it obviously does matter to the proceedings in Lisbon - it's at the heart of their case.

[Benice]

C.Edwards said:

" If the investigating force ask persons directly involved/of interest to do something to assist the investigation then who are those people - who are "cooperating fully" remember - to question the reasons?"
--------

Saepe sepe:
That assumes the State is right to require citizens to do this. The answer to the "Who are these people?" is "Free citizens exercising their right to decline."

Now to one side that may look like obstructing and enquiry, but to the other it might look like refusing to be involved in a Police framing.

And who could blame them after what they had witnessed during the previous months.   To expect any of them to have the slightest trust in the PJ is quite ridiculous  - they would be ultra suspicious about their motives and understandably so IMO.

Apart from anything else the PJ request that they should not bring their children to Portugal with them - would be enough to set alarm bells ringing - if it was me.


 

[Redblossom]

Police with a convicting mindset will always take advantage.

It was their right to refuse to become involved in what they saw as overbearing, useless and potentially a stitch up.

Yes and a right they exercised, they must have been so sure it wouldnt have forwarded the investigation...The PP explained how the exercise was set up to clear doubts remaining about them, ie opportunity to clear them more..Benice dont start being paranoid now, seldom helps

[Benice]

Boring debunker, very  boring.

Actually Stephen it is your repetitive posts which are boring imo.   Constantly pronouncing other people's posts as 'Rubbish' or 'Utter Rubbish' or 'Boring' ad nauseum, as your only contribution  - adds nothing to any debate.     

[Benice]

Yes and a right they exercised, they must have been so sure it wouldnt have forwarded the investigation.....Benice dont start being paranoid now, seldom helps

LOL Red I'm not being paranoid, but I would not blame the group if they were.  As it is -  I believe they were ultra suspicious - which IMO is reflected in some of  their comments.   (1) that the tone of the request appeared to have changed from an  'invitation' -  to their being compelled by law to return, and (2) the fact that the McCanns were described as 'the offenders' at one stage.

Having been the victims of a very nasty smear campaign via the Press, aided and abetted by some elements within the PJ  - and having watched their innocent friends similarly persecuted, villified and then made arguidos - and receiving no explanation as to how a reconstruction could help find Madeleine, then IMO they had no reason to trust a single word that came from the PJ.    Without 'trust'  - their decision not to go was perfectly understandable IMO.

[Redblossom]

To quote Mandy Rice Davis

They would say that, wouldn't they!

Nothing to do with trying to prove their admitted mindset at the time that parents were responsible for an accidental death. It is all in the files.

So you mean with Amaral off the case and after Mr Rebelo reviewed the case, did his own sort of reconstruction, the original thesis was never dropped? Interesting

[Redblossom]

LOL Red I'm not being paranoid, but I would not blame the group if they were.  As it is -  I believe they were ultra suspicious - which IMO is reflected in some of  their comments.   (1) that the tone of the request appeared to have changed from an  'invitation' -  to their being compelled by law to return, and (2) the fact that the McCanns were described as 'the offenders' at one stage.

Having been the victims of a very nasty smear campaign via the Press, aided and abetted by some elements within the PJ  - and having watched their innocent friends similarly persecuted, villified and then made arguidos - and receiving no explanation as to how a reconstruction could help find Madeleine, then IMO they had no reason to trust a single word that came from the PJ.    Without 'trust'  - their decision not to go was perfectly understandable IMO.

Or maybe not...pls dont talk about trust of the pj they were villified from day one....and no not seen any evidence they were told they were compelled or any talk of offenders

[Redblossom]

The fact that the requesting letters for the reconstruction referred to the McCanns as 'The Offenders' kind of gave the game away. And the final report from the police shows that the McCanns being guilty was the line being investigated to the end of the case.

Where is this offenders letter?

[Lace]

Correct me if I am wrong,  but didn't Jez Wilkins say he wouldn't return for the reconstruction?

How would it have proceeded without him?

Would they have used another member of the public as a stand in for him?

If so why couldn't they use other members of the public for the Tapas friends who couldn't return?

[Luz]

Correct me if I am wrong,  but didn't Jez Wilkins say he wouldn't return for the reconstruction?

How would it have proceeded without him?

Would they have used another member of the public as a stand in for him?

If so why couldn't they use other members of the public for the Tapas friends who couldn't return?

The cancelled reconstruction
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id279.html