Source of phone records

[Pzi]

Hello everyone,
First let me start by writing that there's a reason why I didn't simply post this on the "ANYONE ON HERE ACTUALLY PLEASED ABOUT THE LATEST NEWS?" thread or on any other already existing thread.

I'm not looking to discuss on this thread stuff like:
1. If Maddie was killed or abducted on the night she went missing
2. If the McCanns are responsible for her possible death or abduction
3. The ongoing libel trial

Having written that: It has come out that the SY investigators are tracking new leads based on the phone records at the time of Maddie's disappearance of everyone in Praia da Luz, with some sources even saying the phone records of everyone in Algarve.
This seems very strange since the Portuguese investigation at the time was denied access by the Public Ministry to the overall mobile communications in the area and were only given access to the phone logs of those involved in the case: the McCanns, family friends, employees of the resort, and other eventual suspects.

Does anyone know where the SY got the phone records from? This is particularly interesting after the revelations of PRISM.

1. Was it the Portuguese government that gave them access to the phone records?
2. Was it the GCHQ using their equivalent of the PRISM program?
3. Was it the private detectives that bought the data and then passed it on later?
4. Was it the telecommunication companies that gave them directly the records?

This last one seems most probable since Vodafone, one of mobile giants in Portugal, is British and a simple phone call from a politician could have given them everything that they needed.

However, whatever be the case, this seems to be a big breach of privacy and of Portuguese law.

Imagine that one block, or more, away from where you are a crime occurs involving a foreign citizen and that then, even many years later, a foreign country can have access to your data without even respecting the national laws that protect your rights.

Best regards,

[jassi]

There are likely to be foreign nationals from other countries caught up in this, so there may be contravention of the laws of several European countries. Not that that would bother GCHQ.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Welcome to the forum, Pzi.

I am not an expert on phone data, but I look forward to conversing with you.

The work of PRISM certainly reveals some pretty scary things. The fact is that we are all under surveillance in one way or another most of the time.

Can it be considered a good thing to have this data made available to police, provided they use it responsibly? If this helps in the solution of a crime, isn't it good that they have access to it?

[Rachel Granada]

Hello everyone,
First let me start by writing that there's a reason why I didn't simply post this on the "ANYONE ON HERE ACTUALLY PLEASED ABOUT THE LATEST NEWS?" thread or on any other already existing thread.

I'm not looking to discuss on this thread stuff like:
1. If Maddie was killed or abducted on the night she went missing
2. If the McCanns are responsible for her possible death or abduction
3. The ongoing libel trial

Having written that: It has come out that the SY investigators are tracking new leads based on the phone records at the time of Maddie's disappearance of everyone in Praia da Luz, with some sources even saying the phone records of everyone in Algarve.
This seems very strange since the Portuguese investigation at the time was denied access by the Public Ministry to the overall mobile communications in the area and were only given access to the phone logs of those involved in the case: the McCanns, family friends, employees of the resort, and other eventual suspects.

Does anyone know where the SY got the phone records from? This is particularly interesting after the revelations of PRISM.

1. Was it the Portuguese government that gave them access to the phone records?
2. Was it the GCHQ using their equivalent of the PRISM program?
3. Was it the private detectives that bought the data and then passed it on later?
4. Was it the telecommunication companies that gave them directly the records?

This last one seems most probable since Vodafone, one of mobile giants in Portugal, is British and a simple phone call from a politician could have given them everything that they needed.

However, whatever be the case, this seems to be a big breach of privacy and of Portuguese law.

Imagine that one block, or more, away from where you are a crime occurs involving a foreign citizen and that then, even many years later, a foreign country can have access to your data without even respecting the national laws that protect your rights.

Best regards,

Hi DZI and welcome to the forum.  I can't answer any of your questions but I will tip you the wink that at least one deluded nutter has presented a "Phone Analysis" dossier to Grange, thereby wasting their time.

Hopefully Grange tossed it into the bin.

Here's hoping that members on here can help you!

[Mr Gray]

Hello everyone,
First let me start by writing that there's a reason why I didn't simply post this on the "ANYONE ON HERE ACTUALLY PLEASED ABOUT THE LATEST NEWS?" thread or on any other already existing thread.

I'm not looking to discuss on this thread stuff like:
1. If Maddie was killed or abducted on the night she went missing
2. If the McCanns are responsible for her possible death or abduction
3. The ongoing libel trial

Having written that: It has come out that the SY investigators are tracking new leads based on the phone records at the time of Maddie's disappearance of everyone in Praia da Luz, with some sources even saying the phone records of everyone in Algarve.
This seems very strange since the Portuguese investigation at the time was denied access by the Public Ministry to the overall mobile communications in the area and were only given access to the phone logs of those involved in the case: the McCanns, family friends, employees of the resort, and other eventual suspects.

Does anyone know where the SY got the phone records from? This is particularly interesting after the revelations of PRISM.

1. Was it the Portuguese government that gave them access to the phone records?
2. Was it the GCHQ using their equivalent of the PRISM program?
3. Was it the private detectives that bought the data and then passed it on later?
4. Was it the telecommunication companies that gave them directly the records?

This last one seems most probable since Vodafone, one of mobile giants in Portugal, is British and a simple phone call from a politician could have given them everything that they needed.

However, whatever be the case, this seems to be a big breach of privacy and of Portuguese law.

Imagine that one block, or more, away from where you are a crime occurs involving a foreign citizen and that then, even many years later, a foreign country can have access to your data without even respecting the national laws that protect your rights.

Best regards,

Are you sure about this

[Victoria]

Are you sure about this

Might have been Amaral who came out with that one.

[Mr Gray]

I think this isn't true..another myth

[Pzi]

The work of PRISM certainly reveals some pretty scary things. The fact is that we are all under surveillance in one way or another

Can it be considered a good thing to have this data made available to police, provided they use it responsibly?

Sorry in advance since I'm going to have to generalize when speaking of the police. One thing is for the police to get a warrant for private information, but that's not the case here. Here we have a system that allows government agencies to have direct access without any supervision to citizens private information. The main problem is that government agencies and the companies that provide this services are "manned" by human beings. This means that these systems can be abused by those same human beings.

We have already seen that with PRISM. NSA and even FBI personnel using these systems to spy on ex-girlfriends and -wives and in all other matters of dirty laundry.

These systems are also vulnerable to influence from the higher powers -- aka political system. We also have seen this from the USA in both the NSA and even ATF cases.

If this helps in the solution of a crime, isn't it good that they have access to it?

In the context of illegally obtained data: No, never.

Don't get me wrong, if they found Madeline McCann tomorrow thanks to these (possibly illegal obtained) phone records I would be very happy. Nevertheless, the people responsible for it should be still prosecuted. And when I say prosecuted I don't mean getting fired and then getting a better paying job in the private sector.

Are you sure about this

Yes and no. It was made public back in 2007/2008 during the first investigation and was covered by the press and on TV. Unfortunately, I don't know to what extension we can trust the press. Even when they interviewed police and lawyers on the matter.
Looking back it was either the Public Ministry itself or judge Pedro Frias that denied the requests. The same judge who denied access to the actual SMS messages from the McCann's phones. As for the second part of what I wrote you can check the official PJ report for the analysis of the phone call logs.

Best regards,

[AnneGuedes]

Looking back it was either the Public Ministry itself or judge Pedro Frias that denied the requests. The same judge who denied access to the actual SMS messages from the McCann's phones. As for the second part of what I wrote you can check the official PJ report for the analysis of the phone call logs.

Hello Pzi and welcome here !
The request for access to the Mr McCann's SMS was from the Public Ministry to the Judge Frias, who rejected. So the PM went in appeal to the Evora Court, which confirmed the refusal.

[Mr Gray]

Sorry in advance since I'm going to have to generalize when speaking of the police. One thing is for the police to get a warrant for private information, but that's not the case here. Here we have a system that allows government agencies to have direct access without any supervision to citizens private information. The main problem is that government agencies and the companies that provide this services are "manned" by human beings. This means that these systems can be abused by those same human beings.

We have already seen that with PRISM. NSA and even FBI personnel using these systems to spy on ex-girlfriends and -wives and in all other matters of dirty laundry.

These systems are also vulnerable to influence from the higher powers -- aka political system. We also have seen this from the USA in both the NSA and even ATF cases.
In the context of illegally obtained data: No, never.

Don't get me wrong, if they found Madeline McCann tomorrow thanks to these (possibly illegal obtained) phone records I would be very happy. Nevertheless, the people responsible for it should be still prosecuted. And when I say prosecuted I don't mean getting fired and then getting a better paying job in the private sector.
Yes and no. It was made public back in 2007/2008 during the first investigation and was covered by the press and on TV. Unfortunately, I don't know to what extension we can trust the press. Even when they interviewed police and lawyers on the matter.
Looking back it was either the Public Ministry itself or judge Pedro Frias that denied the requests. The same judge who denied access to the actual SMS messages from the McCann's phones. As for the second part of what I wrote you can check the official PJ report for the analysis of the phone call logs.

Best regards,

If you aren't sure the answers no Im afraid, I think you have made rather a large mistake. As I recall it was access to the McCanns phone records that was refused

[Pzi]

Hello Pzi and welcome here !
The request for access to the Mr McCann's SMS was from the Public Ministry to the Judge Frias, who rejected. So the PM went in appeal to the Evora Court, which confirmed the refusal.

Exactly. But I'm referring to two distinct requests for accessing phone records: 1. access to the mobile communications traffic in the area at the time that Maddie went missing, and 2. that request for the McCann's SMS data.

Cheers,

[Sherlock Holmes]

Sorry in advance since I'm going to have to generalize when speaking of the police. One thing is for the police to get a warrant for private information, but that's not the case here. Here we have a system that allows government agencies to have direct access without any supervision to citizens private information. The main problem is that government agencies and the companies that provide this services are "manned" by human beings. This means that these systems can be abused by those same human beings.

We have already seen that with PRISM. NSA and even FBI personnel using these systems to spy on ex-girlfriends and -wives and in all other matters of dirty laundry.

These systems are also vulnerable to influence from the higher powers -- aka political system. We also have seen this from the USA in both the NSA and even ATF cases.
In the context of illegally obtained data: No, never.

Don't get me wrong, if they found Madeline McCann tomorrow thanks to these (possibly illegal obtained) phone records I would be very happy. Nevertheless, the people responsible for it should be still prosecuted. And when I say prosecuted I don't mean getting fired and then getting a better paying job in the private sector.
Yes and no. It was made public back in 2007/2008 during the first investigation and was covered by the press and on TV. Unfortunately, I don't know to what extension we can trust the press. Even when they interviewed police and lawyers on the matter.
Looking back it was either the Public Ministry itself or judge Pedro Frias that denied the requests. The same judge who denied access to the actual SMS messages from the McCann's phones. As for the second part of what I wrote you can check the official PJ report for the analysis of the phone call logs.

Best regards,

Point well-made Pzi.

[Redblossom]

Exactly. But I'm referring to two distinct requests for accessing phone records: 1. access to the mobile communications traffic in the area at the time that Maddie went missing, and 2. that request for the McCann's SMS data.

Cheers,

Not sure if this is any help at all
At some point in late 2007 the PJ did get itemised phone records dating from April 2007 to Sept 2007 for three of the group, showing numbers called, whether it was an sms or a call, duration,etc


Ps welcome


If records for the others were obtained I havent seen them in the files.