Author Topic: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?  (Read 163821 times)

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Offline ShiningInLuz

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #120 on: October 25, 2015, 12:54:39 PM »
Doubt it, many Southern European countries establishments still allowed smoking inside despite the official bans, some with or without measures taken (legally permitted) to mitigate smoke inside them...besides most restaraunts and bars do have outdoor seating and people have no problem sitting/smoking there
Wiki "Portuguese Law 37/2007 governs various aspects of the consumption, sale and control of tobacco in Portugal, and lists a large number of enclosed spaces where smoking is not permitted, including such obvious cases as schools, hospitals and theatres. The law states that exceptions to the no-smoking rule may be made in the cases, inter alia, of enclosed eating and drinking establishments (i.e. restaurants, cafes and bars) not frequented by under-18s if the smoking area is physically separated from the non-smoking area or where ventilation and air extraction systems directed towards the exterior are effective to the point of preventing smoke from entering the non-smoking area, and that in the case of establishments with a floor area of more than 100 square metres no more than 40% (if physically separated) or 30% otherwise may be designated a smoking area. In effect, restaurants are almost always smoke-free as are most cafes whose trade is mainly for food, whereas in bars the law is ignored by customers and bar owners alike. A study published in 2011 by the Ministry of Health showed 90% compliance with the law in establishments with a total smoking ban, but only 50% compliance in establishments where smoking is partly or wholly permitted (i.e., most bars)."

It came into effect on 1 Jan 2008.  The Bull, the Luz Tavern and Café Jasmim (Rua Direita) installed extraction systems, permitting smoking inside.

The rest put up mandatory no smoking signs at the entrance so customers knew before they entered whether smoking was permitted indoors or not.

And I did say it was a shame it was not implemented before Madeleine went missing, as it would have meant more people were nipping outside for a smoke.
What's up, old man?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #121 on: October 25, 2015, 01:33:46 PM »
Yes, this is the problem I had and continue to have. Not once have I heard them say  'please do not do what we did and don't leave your children unattended when you go abroad'!The excuses are something else!  I hope they look back and think what the hell was I thinking saying that! But I so doubt it, such is their arrogance.

The distance in the dark, and music playing in the Tapas bar would suggest they could not 'see/hear' their children. Previous nights of the  children crying were not only ignored but dismissed by the parents when challenged by their daughter.

The other point: if they could see /hear the children, as they were so close and were checking every half hour as they claimed, how did they miss the abductor?

PR from the beginning, what are they hiding? the shame of neglecting their children in the eyes of many?

I think its ridiculous to expect them to blame themselves when the person who should be blamed is the abductor

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #122 on: October 25, 2015, 01:41:22 PM »
I think its ridiculous to expect them to blame themselves when the person who should be blamed is the abductor

They should have taken reponsibility of facilitating any abduction they claim to have happened. Their 'image' was more important to them. It did backfire fast, which is a shame because if their daughter was abducted then they should share the responsibility  or her mortal state , whatever that is. Why do they have a problem with that?
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Eleanor

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #123 on: October 25, 2015, 01:45:55 PM »
They should have taken reponsibility of facilitating any abduction they claim to have happened. Their 'image' was more important to them. It did backfire fast, which is a shame because if their daughter was abducted then they should share the responsibility  or her mortal state , whatever that is. Why do they have a problem with that?

I don't think they do have a problem.  What do you want them to do?  Crawl on their hands and knees and flagellate themselves?

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #124 on: October 25, 2015, 01:52:30 PM »
I don't think they do have a problem.  What do you want them to do?  Crawl on their hands and knees and flagellate themselves?

No, somewhere between the carefully worded expression of regret and anything as OTT as that. A straight forward acceptance of the blame for leaving the kids as exposed as they did would help.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline Anna

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #125 on: October 25, 2015, 01:57:19 PM »
What do these people want from the parents of these unfortunate children......Blood?

April Jones' mum Coral says family has 'had enough' after messages blame her for five-year-old's murder

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/april-jones-mum-coral-says-10239410


“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #126 on: October 25, 2015, 02:09:07 PM »
I don't think they do have a problem.  What do you want them to do?  Crawl on their hands and knees and flagellate themselves?

No, I don't feel I need to see that. I am not judge and jury, I am expressing an opinion on their behaviour. However,
I find their ommitance of responsibility a bit creepy to be honest.  They seem quite happy to sit back and point fingers at other people for what they did not do, which leaves me feeling they are hiding something.

Not being totally honest with the police and the public about the circumstances surrounding their child care arrangements certainly causes concern. They brush it off as if it's something everyone in the UK does.

I know you say you can't point fingers in that respect because you did it yourself, as do many others I am led to believe, but that doesn't make it right.  AND would I be wrong in thinking if your children perished you would say it wasn't your fault cos everyone leaves their children. Hmm Think about that one.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #127 on: October 25, 2015, 02:17:30 PM »
No, I don't feel I need to see that. I am not judge and jury, I am expressing an opinion on their behaviour. However,
I find their ommitance of responsibility a bit creepy to be honest.  They seem quite happy to sit back and point fingers at other people for what they did not do, which leaves me feeling they are hiding something.

Not being totally honest with the police and the public about the circumstances surrounding their child care arrangements certainly causes concern. They brush it off as if it's something everyone in the UK does.

I know you say you can't point fingers in that respect because you did it yourself, as do many others I am led to believe, but that doesn't make it right.  AND would I be wrong in thinking if your children perished you would say it wasn't your fault cos ever yone leaves their children. Hmm Think about that one.

you are totally wrong....The McCannns had professional counselling....the first thing they would have been told is you mustn't blame yourselves....this would be very important to their recovery from a very traumatic episode

Offline Brietta

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #128 on: October 25, 2015, 02:20:22 PM »
They have atoned for any perceived sins by devoting their lives to finding out what happened to Madeleine.  Their success in achieving their aim of having Madeleine's case reopened and the search for answers to her disappearance  can be measured by the opprobrium directed at them from some quarters.

What we do not know at present is if Madeleine's abduction was carried out by an opportunist taking advantage of their absence or if she was targeted.

If the latter it would have made not the slightest difference to events.

If the former ... that is something they have to live with and I doubt they need to be reminded of it ... that they have not caved in to despair as a result but have set about helping others and campaigning for Madeleine is to their credit.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Eleanor

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #129 on: October 25, 2015, 02:25:57 PM »
No, somewhere between the carefully worded expression of regret and anything as OTT as that. A straight forward acceptance of the blame for leaving the kids as exposed as they did would help.

They have done that.  Or was once not enough?  More than once, actually.  Issuing a long winded statement about their culpability would not help, and telling people not to do it would be an insult to all of us.  And anyone not listening and seeing will go on doing it anyway.
I did the same thing, but I would never do it again, or encourage anyone I know to do it.  I don't need to be told.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #130 on: October 25, 2015, 02:33:13 PM »
No, somewhere between the carefully worded expression of regret and anything as OTT as that. A straight forward acceptance of the blame for leaving the kids as exposed as they did would help.

they are not to blame...they are the victims of a crime

Offline Eleanor

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #131 on: October 25, 2015, 02:34:49 PM »
No, I don't feel I need to see that. I am not judge and jury, I am expressing an opinion on their behaviour. However,
I find their ommitance of responsibility a bit creepy to be honest.  They seem quite happy to sit back and point fingers at other people for what they did not do, which leaves me feeling they are hiding something.

Not being totally honest with the police and the public about the circumstances surrounding their child care arrangements certainly causes concern. They brush it off as if it's something everyone in the UK does.

I know you say you can't point fingers in that respect because you did it yourself, as do many others I am led to believe, but that doesn't make it right.  AND would I be wrong in thinking if your children perished you would say it wasn't your fault cos everyone leaves their children. Hmm Think about that one.

I don't need to think about it.  Obviously I would blame myself, just as The McCanns have done.  Isn't that enough?  They will have to live with it for the rest of their lives, no matter what happens.
But when are any of you going to blame the real culprit who stole their daughter?

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if some moron set up a Fund for the abductor when he is caught.

Offline Miss Taken Identity

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #132 on: October 25, 2015, 02:35:29 PM »
you are totally wrong....The McCannns had professional counselling....the first thing they would have been told is you mustn't blame yourselves....this would be very important to their recovery from a very traumatic episode

Did these councellors also tell them to dump responsibility  onto others ie the police, the holiday company, Amaral, speaking of which, Kate did forgive her daughters paedo abductor but wanted Amarals head on a platter? does this make sense to you? also, Amarals book caused more distress than her daughters dissapearance- on her claim to extract money from someone who did not abduct her daughter. Nice people...Not.
'Never underestimate the power of stupid people'... George Carlin

Offline Eleanor

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #133 on: October 25, 2015, 02:37:12 PM »
They have atoned for any perceived sins by devoting their lives to finding out what happened to Madeleine.  Their success in achieving their aim of having Madeleine's case reopened and the search for answers to her disappearance  can be measured by the opprobrium directed at them from some quarters.

What we do not know at present is if Madeleine's abduction was carried out by an opportunist taking advantage of their absence or if she was targeted.

If the latter it would have made not the slightest difference to events.

If the former ... that is something they have to live with and I doubt they need to be reminded of it ... that they have not caved in to despair as a result but have set about helping others and campaigning for Madeleine is to their credit.

What Brietta said.  And Davel.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?
« Reply #134 on: October 25, 2015, 02:38:59 PM »
Did these councellors also tell them to dump responsibility  onto others ie the police, the holiday company, Amaral, speaking of which, Kate did forgive her daughters paedo abductor but wanted Amarals head on a platter? does this make sense to you? also, Amarals book caused more distress than her daughters dissapearance- on her claim to extract money from someone who did not abduct her daughter. Nice people...Not.

everything you have said makes sense in the context it was made....you have taken it out of context so obviously it now doesn't make sense....I think the McCannns are a very nice couple...it's a matter of opinion