Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?

[pegasus]

But not 100% safe.

Infinitely safer Alfred. If they had dined on Tapas takeaway on their balcony, not a soul would have criticised it.

[Alfred R Jones]

Infinitely safer Alfred. If they had dined on Tapas takeaway on their balcony, not a soul would have criticised it.

There would be no criticism or any sort without there being a missing child, so if the child had gone missing whilst the  McCanns sat on their verandah eating there would have been just as much suspicion heaped on them, if not more, as no one else would have been around to witness their movements.

[Alfred R Jones]

If that had happened then they wouldn't have been facilitating it. Leaving the property = facilitation.

Your use of the word "facilitation" makes it sound as if you think the McCanns wanted Madeleine to come to harm.

[misty]

There would be no criticism or any sort without there being a missing child, so if the child had gone missing whilst the  McCanns sat on their verandah eating there would have been just as much suspicion heaped on them, if not more, as no one else would have been around to witness their movements.

It would have been even more suspicious had they dined on their verandah alone on the very night Madeleine was taken, after leaving the children all week. I can't begin to imagine the level of scepticism & hostility which would have ensued.

[Alfred R Jones]

It would have been even more suspicious had they dined on their verandah alone on the very night Madeleine was taken, after leaving the children all week. I can't begin to imagine the level of scepticism & hostility which would have ensued.

No one would believe them for a start.  "How does a child get abducted from under its parents noses"? would be the repeated refrain.  Despite the fact that is has happened before, the McCanns would still be figures of hate for their "neglect to notice" the child being taken ("they must have been really pissed") or for having done away with the child themselves.  We know how it works by now!

[pegasus]

Fact is they could easily have dined in the back garden - it has a nice balcony and a table and chairs - Tapas do takeaways - and yes you still get the gratis bottles of wine. It would have been perfectly safe.

[Alfred R Jones]

Fact is they could easily have dined in the back garden - it has a nice balcony and a table and chairs - Tapas do takeaways - and yes you still get the gratis bottles of wine. It would have been perfectly safe.

They could have eaten a sandwich in the dark sat on the floor in their kids' bedroom, even safer.

[misty]

Fact is they could easily have dined in the back garden - it has a nice balcony and a table and chairs - Tapas do takeaways - and yes you still get the gratis bottles of wine. It would have been perfectly safe.

Given the fact that none of the MW nannies seem to have been gainfully employed babysitting anywhere other than the night crèche (3 there, so no more than 15 children max), coupled with the lack of witnesses walking around that evening, how many of the families do you think dined on their balcony or in the garden that night?
I did have a chuckle last night, during Downton, at the scene where the 3 young children were tucked up asleep in the nursery together & the nanny was sitting in the room watching over them. How times have changed - imagine SuperNanny's horror!

[pegasus]

Given the fact that none of the MW nannies seem to have been gainfully employed babysitting anywhere other than the night crèche (3 there, so no more than 15 children max), coupled with the lack of witnesses walking around that evening, how many of the families do you think dined on their balcony or in the garden that night?
I did have a chuckle last night, during Downton, at the scene where the 3 young children were tucked up asleep in the nursery together & the nanny was sitting in the room watching over them. How times have changed - imagine SuperNanny's horror!

The four adults who dined on the balcony of apartment 606 that night. They all had kids, who were safe inside that apartment within clear hearing distance of the adult diners on the balcony - perfectly safe. And the adults didn't have to cook - they simply got takeaway from Tapas.
Why didn't the T9 get Tapas takeaway?

[ShiningInLuz]

Possible but not probable.  If Madeleine was in fact taken then whoever did it was monitoring the parents movements.  As Gerry claims to have seen Madeleine around 9.15pm whilst on his last visit to the apartment then the abductor had to have made his move after that time.  Had at least one of them stayed put in the apartment then I believe Madeleine would not have been taken, assuming again of course that that is what happened.

Moral of the story is, do not leave young children unattended for any length of time.

@John.  Is distance or predictability the more important factor?  Assuming an abduction.

The distance gives the abductor a 30 second plus head start, which seems a fair safety cushion if this is what happened.

The predictability (interrupted by a child's sickness) gives an alleged abductor a feeling of relative safety.

If they had mixed and matched, an evening in Tapas, an evening in the Millennium, an evening on the balcony, an evening taking the kids outside of the Ocean Club for a meal, would this alleged abduction have happened?

No, wrong question.  Would an abductor have tried this if the McCanns had a non-predictable routine?

[Brietta]

The four adults who dined on the balcony of apartment 606 that night. They all had kids, who were safe inside that apartment within clear hearing distance of the adult diners on the balcony - perfectly safe. And the adults didn't have to cook - they simply got takeaway from Tapas.
Why didn't the T9 get Tapas takeaway?

It hadn't been Raj Balu's original intention to dine on a veranda ... that only happened because the Berry family failed to get a table.

From 15:30 onwards, the bar was full, as normally happened, with the majority of people there. Neil and E*** were having a drink with my wife and I. We had a table reserved in the restaurant for that night, but they were not able to arrange a table and for this reason we decided to leave our table and ate together in their apartment using takeaway service.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RAJ_BALU.htm

[G-Unit]

Your use of the word "facilitation" makes it sound as if you think the McCanns wanted Madeleine to come to harm.

Literally true, no intention assumed.

make easy/easier, ease, make possible, make smooth/smoother, smooth, smooth the path of, smooth the way for, clear the way for, open the door for; enable,

[pegasus]

It hadn't been Raj Balu's original intention to dine on a veranda ... that only happened because the Berry family failed to get a table.

From 15:30 onwards, the bar was full, as normally happened, with the majority of people there. Neil and E*** were having a drink with my wife and I. We had a table reserved in the restaurant for that night, but they were not able to arrange a table and for this reason we decided to leave our table and ate together in their apartment using takeaway service.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/RAJ_BALU.htm

When the B family failed to get a table we should emphasise that this was not the B family's fault.
It was due to the failure of four other families to desist from selfishly bypassing the normal daily booking system and hogging the restaurant. Ask K and J - they were the more considerate ones who were not happy with doing it.

[G-Unit]

@John.  Is distance or predictability the more important factor?  Assuming an abduction.

The distance gives the abductor a 30 second plus head start, which seems a fair safety cushion if this is what happened.

The predictability (interrupted by a child's sickness) gives an alleged abductor a feeling of relative safety.

If they had mixed and matched, an evening in Tapas, an evening in the Millennium, an evening on the balcony, an evening taking the kids outside of the Ocean Club for a meal, would this alleged abduction have happened?

No, wrong question.  Would an abductor have tried this if the McCanns had a non-predictable routine?

I think they would have had to watch the whole group and the group weren't that predictable. Sunday evening Matt stayed in, Tuesday evening Russell stayed in, Wednesday evening Rachael stayed in. Unless they were watching at 8.30pm, Kate could have been in that evening. Gerry could have been just checking on her.

[Mr Gray]

Baby listening has been used for at least 50 years....can anyone come up with a serious incident associated with it...apart from Maddie...just how dangerous is it