Was 50 metres from the apartment 50 metres too far?

[misty]

Is it the leaving the children alone or the frequency of the checking which is the biggest problem to people here?

[G-Unit]

But davel you are referring to professional listening services like there were at some other MW resorts.
That means checks every 15 minutes and no drinking on the job.

Also within an area to with exits and entrances which can be controlled and with the child/children behind a locked door.

[Alice Purjorick]

Is it the leaving the children alone or the frequency of the checking which is the biggest problem to people here?

Neither is a problem to me as it does not affect me.
A decision was taken in the face of uncertainty, what dear old Donald Rumsfeld called the unknown unknowns. The decision had an undesirable outcome. It wasn't the first such it will undoubtedly not be the last.
Try not to take risky decisions in the face of uncertainty if there are things of value to lose, the loss of which is unacceptable to you.

[mercury]

Is it the leaving the children alone or the frequency of the checking which is the biggest problem to people here?

Dear misty

No normal parents leave their toddlers all alone, do you? It might surprise you to know Im sick to the back teeth with this issue, been discussed for years and years, they did it, as did their mates, but for anyone to even try to attempt to make it "a normal happening" practised by many is pathetic because its simply untrue

As for the "checking" gerry mccann says he checked every half hour but just listened for any noise or crying but never actually looked in....his kids could have been all dead....and he wouldnt have known...what was the POINT of his checks then? He keeps sayng we never perceived any danger, it seemed safe, so  what danger was he referring to?

[slartibartfast]

Mark Warner continue to offer the service in their 2015/2016 holiday brochure.

We offer a free evening listening service for children from 4 months to 5 years
http://www.markwarner.co.uk/family-holidays/summer

...as in...

Ages 4 months to 5 years
Our supervised Evening Listening Service from 7.30pm until 11pm features a quiet sleeping area for little ones and a comfy beanbag area for those who want to watch a DVD.

[misty]

Dear misty

No normal parents leave their toddlers all alone, do you? It might surprise you to know Im sick to the back teeth with this issue, been discussed for years and years, they did it, as did their mates, but for anyone to even try to attempt to make it "a normal happening" practised by many is pathetic because its simply untrue

As for the "checking" gerry mccann says he checked every half hour but just listened for any noise or crying but never actually looked in....his kids could have been all dead....and he wouldnt have known...what was the POINT of his checks then? He keeps sayng we never perceived any danger, it seemed safe, so  what danger was he referring to?

It depends on your definition of "alone", Mercury.
I wonder how often most of the parents on here looked in on their little ones every half an hour after they had put them upstairs to bed for the night. I wonder how many looked in on them at all if there was no noise coming from the bedroom. I wonder how many left children to cry themselves to sleep, as per Supernanny and good old-fashioned parenting, without ever checking they hadn't suffocated/choked on their vomit/passed out?
Is the act of leaving a child unattended & being 50m away really any more serious than the failure to regularly check on a child's wellbeing?

[mercury]

...as in...

thanks for that as I was wondering....

[mercury]

It depends on your definition of "alone", Mercury.
I wonder how often most of the parents on here looked in on their little ones every half an hour after they had put them upstairs to bed for the night. I wonder how many looked in on them at all if there was no noise coming from the bedroom. I wonder how many left children to cry themselves to sleep, as per Supernanny and good old-fashioned parenting, without ever checking they hadn't suffocated/choked on their vomit/passed out?
Is the act of leaving a child unattended & being 50m away really any more serious than the failure to regularly check on a child's wellbeing?

Do you even have to ask..there is a massive difference between being in your own house....honestly misty, get a grip on this

[G-Unit]

Is it the leaving the children alone or the frequency of the checking which is the biggest problem to people here?

As usual, i can only speak for myself. If the group did decide to leave the children alone and check on them during dinner they all made a dodgy decision, even the Paynes with their monitor. The situation wasn't like a hotel with a listening service because it was a public space where anyone could enter and exit, even park a car in the car park for a getaway. Three of the children were in beds and were mobile. Two of those could have got into trouble alone in their apartments but only Madeleine could get out of the apartment. That made a dodgy decision by her parents into a really stupid decision. I find it very difficult to believe that any parent with a modicum of intelligence would make that decision in this day and age.

In the past people let their children roam. I went out in the school holidays and came back when I was hungry. No-one knew where I was and no-one worried. Children don't have that kind of freedom now because parents are very aware of stranger danger. Playgrounds don't have tarmac and broken glass any more, they have soft surfaces. Why did a couple who most likely wouldn't let their kids play in a dangerous playground leave them alone in an apartment with an open door to a dangerous balcony? It beggars belief, sorry.

[misty]

Do you even have to ask..there is a massive difference between being in your own house....honestly misty, get a grip on this

I don't need to "get a grip" on this issue, Mercury. It's a discussion, that's all and doesn't affect my life or my children in the slightest.
Most children who die in the home usually have an adult in attendance.

[G-Unit]

It depends on your definition of "alone", Mercury.
I wonder how often most of the parents on here looked in on their little ones every half an hour after they had put them upstairs to bed for the night. I wonder how many looked in on them at all if there was no noise coming from the bedroom. I wonder how many left children to cry themselves to sleep, as per Supernanny and good old-fashioned parenting, without ever checking they hadn't suffocated/choked on their vomit/passed out?
Is the act of leaving a child unattended & being 50m away really any more serious than the failure to regularly check on a child's wellbeing?

It worries me how people think the group behaved responsibly. It worries me how many people seem to have a very relaxed attitude towards the duty of care owed to little ones. Why don't you ask the NSPCC to explain the difference to you? Educate yourself, please!

[G-Unit]

I don't need to "get a grip" on this issue, Mercury. It's a discussion, that's all and doesn't affect my life or my children in the slightest.
Most children who die in the home usually have an adult in attendance.

And the adult is not to blame. If they were 50m away wining and dining the authorities might have some questions, however. Surely you can see the difference?

[mercury]

I don't need to "get a grip" on this issue, Mercury. It's a discussion, that's all and doesn't affect my life or my children in the slightest.
Most children who die in the home usually have an adult in attendance.

yes you do need go get a grip...leaving 2 and 3 yr olds alone and leaving them with an adult around are NOT the same  thing

[Brietta]

...as in...

Some Mark Warner resorts operate a "listening service" ... which entails a member of staff listening for children at the door of the accommodation.


Baby listening service worked well, they really do check your door every 15 mins, and come and get you from dinner/bar.  Ems 
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_advice_tips/21939-anyone-done-a-mark-warner-with-kids

(i hired one every night from 7pm, they would take the baby off whilst I got dressed up and bring him back when I'd gone to dinner, bath him and put him to bed about 8.30 pm and then put him on baby listening which cut down the cost). Trifle
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/general_advice_tips/21939-anyone-done-a-mark-warner-with-kids

The resort operates baby listening at night, which was fantastic as it gave us the chance to eat out in peace without having to go back to the room every five minutes to check on them.
https://www.holidaywatchdog.com/42312-Kardamena-Lakitira_Beach_Resort_Mark_Warner-Holiday-Review.html

We operated a shift system so that the older boys would take it in turns to eat with us while the other stayed in the room with the 3 yr old. We used the well organised room listening service which worked well and reassured the kids that they were not alone.
https://www.holidaywatchdog.com/42312-Kardamena-Lakitira_Beach_Resort_Mark_Warner-Holiday-Review.html

[puglove]

As usual, i can only speak for myself. If the group did decide to leave the children alone and check on them during dinner they all made a dodgy decision, even the Paynes with their monitor. The situation wasn't like a hotel with a listening service because it was a public space where anyone could enter and exit, even park a car in the car park for a getaway. Three of the children were in beds and were mobile. Two of those could have got into trouble alone in their apartments but only Madeleine could get out of the apartment. That made a dodgy decision by her parents into a really stupid decision. I find it very difficult to believe that any parent with a modicum of intelligence would make that decision in this day and age.

In the past people let their children roam. I went out in the school holidays and came back when I was hungry. No-one knew where I was and no-one worried. Children don't have that kind of freedom now because parents are very aware of stranger danger. Playgrounds don't have tarmac and broken glass any more, they have soft surfaces. Why did a couple who most likely wouldn't let their kids play in a dangerous playground leave them alone in an apartment with an open door to a dangerous balcony? It beggars belief, sorry.

Oh blimey, I'm not supposed to join in with this, apparently. But I have to say, top post. When I was little, I'd go out for the whole day, playing on an old ammo dump, and only go home when it was dark, or if one of my pals had a watch and we knew it was tea time. When my kids were growing up, they went out on their bikes or ponies, and I didn't worry. My youngest was so fed up with not having enough pocket-money, she got on her bike with a bucket and sponge (she was 10) and went round the village washing cars.

Now, when my grandchildren are playing in the garden, surrounded by 8 annoying dogs who bark even if a leaf falls off a tree, I watch them all of the time, on high alert. All because of what happened to Madeleine McCann. If a child can be taken from her bed, then surely a child can be taken from anywhere. I blame the McCanns for this. Innocence and freedom has been lost, because the McCanns chose to leave their small children. And, sad old cliche as it is, they wouldn't have left a wallet full of money on the bed. But they left their babies. And this is why people like me are so pissed off.