Author Topic: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?  (Read 52830 times)

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Offline Montclair

Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #270 on: October 21, 2013, 08:54:33 AM »
No one goes to a private medical clinic in Portugal for a medical emergency at night, you go to the Urgências at the closest hospital which would have been either Lagos Hospital or Portimão Hospital. Anyway, if, by a long shot, this is what happened, the doctor at the clinic would have reported it.

Benita

  • Guest
Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #271 on: October 21, 2013, 09:20:28 AM »
I can't come up with a credible reason why acquaintances would lie to cover a serious crime, but neither can I come up with a credible reason for their being no evidence of an abduction. In fact the only  evidence  seems to point to staging. Misinformation about jemmied shutters and broken doors. Kate's fingerprints on the window, everybodies willingness to point the finger at Murat..

And the door!

That mysteriously moving door!

On a different thread Red came up with a credible reason for Smithman. Someone taking a child to a medical emergency wouldn't stop to chat, would hurry, wouldn't worry about shoes or coats, especially if their child had a temperature.

But even if Smithman is debunked, where does that leave everything else?


what evidence would an abductor leave ? they walk in take child out of bed walk out.. takes seconds...

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #272 on: October 21, 2013, 09:22:53 AM »

what evidence would an abductor leave ? they walk in take child out of bed walk out.. takes seconds...

Finger prints?

Apparently it didn't take seconds though. The door started mysteriously moving by 9:05 yet Smithman wasn't spotted till 10:00 only 10 minutes away.

Benita

  • Guest
Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #273 on: October 21, 2013, 09:45:20 AM »
Finger prints?

Apparently it didn't take seconds though. The door started mysteriously moving by 9:05 yet Smithman wasn't spotted till 10:00 only 10 minutes away.


never heard of gloves ..yes apparently ..so not fact.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 09:50:21 AM by Benita »

Offline Benice

Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #274 on: October 21, 2013, 09:46:40 AM »
I can't come up with a credible reason why acquaintances would lie to cover a serious crime, but neither can I come up with a credible reason for their being no evidence of an abduction. In fact the only  evidence  seems to point to staging. Misinformation about jemmied shutters and broken doors. Kate's fingerprints on the window, everybodies willingness to point the finger at Murat..

And the door!

That mysteriously moving door!

On a different thread Red came up with a credible reason for Smithman. Someone taking a child to a medical emergency wouldn't stop to chat, would hurry, wouldn't worry about shoes or coats, especially if their child had a temperature.

But even if Smithman is debunked, where does that leave everything else?

IMO while there is no credible reason why the friends would agree to lie - there is a credible reason to explain why apart from the open shutter/window and missing child,  no definite evidence was found - and that is because it was either destroyed by the traffic through the apartment, or it was simply missed by the forensic people.  But that doesn't mean it didn't ever exist.   Amaral himself admitted there were shortcomings in that area.

As for 'staging' I always come back to the fact that 2 intelligent people would never have embarked on such a complicated plan - where so many things could go wrong, and depended hugely on the lifelong collusion and co-operation of 7 other people - when all they had to do was:-

Say nothing to anyone,
Wait until the middle of the night and dispose of the body at their leisure,
Ring the police the next morning and say she must have been abducted during the night while they were asleep.

They would even have time to force the front door open from the outside - to provide evidence of how the abductor got in.   Or they could simply say someone must have had a key.

With the best will in the world I cannot get past that very large elephant in the room.



 



« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 09:49:36 AM by Benice »
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline pathfinder73

Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #275 on: October 21, 2013, 10:08:11 AM »
I also now have a very good theory on how Madeleine got out of the apartment without being seen by anyone and what was brought back and placed on the shelf in the wardrobe where the dogs alerted and responded to. People can be easily manipulated. The dogs I believe didn't lie in this case (Do dogs lie!). Everything connects and that's why SY are saying the TIMELINE IS CRITICAL! It's no surprise to me why Smithman has never came forward in 6 years to clear his name.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2013, 10:18:19 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #276 on: October 21, 2013, 10:23:38 AM »
IMO while there is no credible reason why the friends would agree to lie - there is a credible reason to explain why apart from the open shutter/window and missing child,  no definite evidence was found - and that is because it was either destroyed by the traffic through the apartment, or it was simply missed by the forensic people.  But that doesn't mean it didn't ever exist.   Amaral himself admitted there were shortcomings in that area.

As for 'staging' I always come back to the fact that 2 intelligent people would never have embarked on such a complicated plan - where so many things could go wrong, and depended hugely on the lifelong collusion and co-operation of 7 other people - when all they had to do was:-

Say nothing to anyone,
Wait until the middle of the night and dispose of the body at their leisure,
Ring the police the next morning and say she must have been abducted during the night while they were asleep.

They would even have time to force the front door open from the outside - to provide evidence of how the abductor got in.   Or they could simply say someone must have had a key.

With the best will in the world I cannot get past that very large elephant in the room.

I have to say that the biggest stumbling block for me in the  'accidendental death' in the apartment theory is the need for collusion of some sort between the entire party 

Like you Benice,  I just  don't see that a group of people would all be prepared to involve themselves in such a dark event,  even if it just meant  'lying by omission' 

Offline jassi

Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #277 on: October 21, 2013, 11:05:58 AM »
It could be the  group felt vulnerable to the charge of child neglect, something that might ruin all their lives and careers, and so had to go along with anything that would dispel that idea, even if reluctantly.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #278 on: October 21, 2013, 11:12:36 AM »
It could be the  group felt vulnerable to the charge of child neglect, something that might ruin all their lives and careers, and so had to go along with anything that would dispel that idea, even if reluctantly.

I just don't see it jassi

Someone in the group would have to have come up the gruesome suggestion of  'disposing'  of  the body of a child 

I just can't  believe that there wouldn't be at least one adult in that party who would have  have said ...   "Are you MAD ? !

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #279 on: October 21, 2013, 11:13:26 AM »
I have to say that the biggest stumbling block for me in the  'accidendental death' in the apartment theory is the need for collusion of some sort between the entire party 

Like you Benice,  I just  don't see that a group of people would all be prepared to involve themselves in such a dark event,  even if it just meant  'lying by omission'
They didn't lie by omission, they didn't say the truth to protect themselves from neglect accusations and to support the abduction theory that they believed (at that stage at least). There was no pact, no conspiracy, no smart person would dare to suggest this kind of thing to acquaintances.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #280 on: October 21, 2013, 11:14:33 AM »

I just can't  believe that there wouldn't be at least one adult in that party who would have  have said ...   "Are you MAD ? !
Absolutely.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #281 on: October 21, 2013, 11:18:01 AM »

Wait until the middle of the night and dispose of the body at their leisure,

That makes me shiver !
I'm sorry, Benice, but rigor mortis is not just a word.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #282 on: October 21, 2013, 11:20:45 AM »
They didn't lie by omission, they didn't say the truth to protect themselves from neglect accusations and to support the abduction theory that they believed (at that stage at least). There was no pact, no conspiracy, no smart person would dare to suggest this kind of thing to acquaintances.

Your suggestion makes more sense Anne

You think that the rest of the group  (  or most of them at least )  believed that Madeleine  had  been abducted,   and that if they told any lies it was because they were fearful of their own position  (  re neglect )  ?   ...  and   NOT  in order  to cover up for the McCanns  ?

Offline jassi

Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #283 on: October 21, 2013, 11:21:40 AM »
I just don't see it jassi

Someone in the group would have to have come up the gruesome suggestion of  'disposing'  of  the body of a child 

I just can't  believe that there wouldn't be at least one adult in that party who would have  have said ...   "Are you MAD ? !

Some of them probably weren't privy to the whole truth anyway, just that she was missing under strange circumstances.
Peer groups can be persuasive  - "come on, its not really lying, just be a little vague and unsure about things, we'll handle the rest" - that sort of thing.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Benice

Re: SY claim the man Tanner saw had collected his child from the night creche ?
« Reply #284 on: October 21, 2013, 11:31:13 AM »
I just don't see it jassi

Someone in the group would have to have come up the gruesome suggestion of  'disposing'  of  the body of a child 

I just can't  believe that there wouldn't be at least one adult in that party who would have  have said ...   "Are you MAD ? !

Especially Diane Webster who had no responsiblity for any child - and only knew the McCanns as her daughter's friends.     Would she entertain taking the risk of ending up a Portuguese prison at her age - with her husband thousands of miles away in the UK - when there was absolutely no need for her to be involved in any way?   

IMO There's no chance any of them would take such a risk - but particularly so in DW's case.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal