Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?

[pathfinder73]

99%+ of cases of unauthorised opening of window are a person intending to burgle.
If that person opens the window and shutter but then, paradoxically, as the lack of forensic evidence shows, does not climb in, a logical question to ask Imo is: did someone else disturb them?
So the question is, is there any possiblity there was someone sleeping in that room, who got awoken by the third stage of the the opening process (loud noise of external shutter being raised by strap with window already opened)?
If there was no-one in that room, then the hypothesis is impossible and ridiculous, but what if, against all the odds, there was someone asleep in the room?

45:30

p.s. the dolphin restaurant bill was clocked at 9.27 re Smiths so they left and headed to Kelly's Bar after that time which connects with Aoife's timeline not Martin or Peter's. Aiofe said they left Kelly's Bar at 10pm (she was certain about the time in her statement) which connects with the Smithman sighting time at 10.03 - my theory. That time as early as 9.50 from Martin did serious damage to the investigation but I knew that time wasn't right.

[pegasus]

Thanks John and Pathfinder for the photos of shutter with slats tight together / slats with gap between.

[pegasus]

... 9:30 Matt finds the door ... half-open.

... Kate ... finds the door wide open ...

The unusual location of the door within an alcove created by the built-in wardrobes gives the unusual situation that when the door is open by an angle of about 60 degrees, the view into the room for someone standing outside the door is already maximised.

The view into the room with door open about 60 degrees equals the view into the room with door open about 90 degrees.
The only difference is that at 90 degrees you get also to see the end of the built-in wardrobe.

So that is how one person may describe a door as partly open, and another person describe it as fully open, when they are describing the same angle.

IMO KM saw the same angle as MO.

IIRC MO in his 2008 statement does point out this unusual feature of the room layout clearly.

[pegasus]

(Replying on this thread because it's about the bedroom door)

Well, Kate couldn't possibly know what position the door should have been in as Gerry had been in the apartment since she left at 8.30

She knew what position the door was in when she left the apartment at about 8.30pm.
She knew that GM and MO had been in the apartment since.

It was totally reasonable for her to assume that GM and MO during their checks either did not open the bedroom door, or that if they did they would certainly return the door to its almost closed position afterwards.

A 3 year old child is entirely capable of pulling a hinged internal door wider open.

Initially the child was in the north bedroom. Later the child wasn't in the north bedroom.
It seems quite obvious to me that the child pulled the door open wider to walk/run from the north bedroom into another room.

I think my chances of winning the "Most Complicated And Devious Moving Door Theory" award are small.

[pathfinder73]

(Replying on this thread because it's about the bedroom door)
She knew what position the door was in when she left the apartment at about 8.30pm.
She knew that GM and MO had been in the apartment since.

It was totally reasonable for her to assume that GM and MO during their checks either did not open the bedroom door, or that if they did they would certainly return the door to its almost closed position afterwards.

A 3 year old child is entirely capable of pulling a hinged internal door wider open.

Initially the child was in the north bedroom. Later the child wasn't in the north bedroom.
It seems quite obvious to me that the child pulled the door open wider to walk/run from the north bedroom into another room.

I think my chances of winning the "Most Complicated And Devious Moving Door Theory" award are small.

There's nothing complicated about something that doesn't move.

[pegasus]

There's nothing complicated about something that doesn't move.

You have ruled out the possibility that the child opened the bedroom door?

[pathfinder73]

You have ruled out the possibility that the child opened the bedroom door?

No I don't believe Madeleine moved the door 3 times. Gerry found her exactly in the same sleeping position at 9 so do you think she moved the door?

[pegasus]

No I don't believe Madeleine moved the door 3 times. Gerry found her exactly in the same sleeping position at 9 so do you think she moved the door?

Have you have ruled out that the child may have opened the north bedroom door once that evening?

And to answer your question:
Yes it is likely that the child opened the door to go from the north bedroom into another room IMO
(ETA probably after about 9.05pm).

[pathfinder73]

Have you have ruled out that the child may have opened the north bedroom door once that evening?

And to answer your question:
Yes it is likely that the child opened the door to go from the north bedroom into another room IMO
(ETA probably after about 9.05pm).

So you have the child moving the door for a second time before Matt's check? What are the chances of her waking up first between 8.30-9 moving the door then falling back asleep. Then she wakes up again before Matt checks at 9.30 and amazingly moves the door to exactly the same half-open position. No open window before 9.30 to disturb her. What are the odds? I don't believe that happened for one second when there is a simple explanation for everything unusual that happened that night. Do you think she was back in bed when Matt checked?

[icabodcrane]

There is a possibility that the door to the children's bedroom never moved  at all 

[ edited - removed defamatory comment ]

[pathfinder73]

There is a possibility that the door to the children's bedroom never moved  at all 

[ edited - removed defamatory comment ]

  

[pegasus]

There is a possibility that the door to the children's bedroom never moved  at all 

[ edited - removed defamatory comment ]

That would bring you back to a climb in window and climb out window scenario.

A child is in a bedroom with its door almost shut.
Later the child is not in the bedroom and its door is more open.
My suggestion: the child got out of bed, pulled the door open, the purpose of that action being to walk through the doorway into another room.
This explains both the door being wider open, and the person being no longer in the room.

[pathfinder73]

That would bring you back to a climb in window and climb out window scenario.

A child is in a bedroom with its door almost shut.
Later the child is not in the bedroom and its door is more open.
My suggestion: the child got out of bed, pulled the door open, the purpose of that action being to walk through the doorway into another room.
This explains both the door being wider open, and the person being no longer in the room.

A child waking up explains one move of the door. Which one? Before Gerry's check or before Matt's? Take your pick but that doesn't cover it. But if the door didn't move i.e. was always half-open then you better ask yourself if the child was even in the bed?

[pegasus]

So you have the child moving the door for a second time before Matt's check? What are the chances of her waking up first between 8.30-9 moving the door then falling back asleep. Then she wakes up again before Matt checks at 9.30 and amazingly moves the door to exactly the same half-open position. No open window before 9.30 to disturb her. What are the odds? I don't believe that happened for one second when there is a simple explanation for everything unusual that happened that night. Do you think she was back in bed when Matt checked?

IMO the child pulled the door open and walked to another room (possibly 9.05-9.30).
And what is your theory of the very first bit, the transition from being just inside the northbedroom door, to being just outside the northbedroom door?
If you think it wasn't walking on own feet, what method are you proposing instead to transition from one side of that doorway to the other?
 

[pegasus]

... you better ask yourself if the child was even in the bed?

OK, so on page one line one of your theory of that mealtime, which room was the child in IYO when the parents left for meal?