Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?

[AnneGuedes]

Pity the car park was never looked at further. People living around the car park never asked if they saw anything unusual that night.

I doubt very much that this little girl would have gone all that way. The corridor part possibly, but the alley path was very dark, I feel she would have gone backwards. But if she didn't, then why would she cross Francisco GM ?
And I can't figure her out not screaming and crying and calling. No way.

[pathfinder73]

Where is the crèche in relation to that map where Madeleine was picked up at 5.30pm?

If it's below that car park then it seems like they walked from there at 5.30pm and Madeleine went to the front entrance of 5A and not to the back as said in that 10 May statement.

[VIXTE]

I doubt very much that this little girl would have gone all that way. The corridor part possibly, but the alley path was very dark, I feel she would have gone backwards. But if she didn't, then why would she cross Francisco GM ?
And I can't figure her out not screaming and crying and calling. No way.

It is not up to us what to believe.
The PJ had a lead, within first 24 hours of the disappearance, they had at that time 2 dogs separately pointing at this car park. They could at least ask who parked their car there that night.
Also there were rubbish bins there. There should be a report in the files about these bins being searched.

It is somewhere at the back of my mind that Kate said she went there during this first night. Am I wrong?

[VIXTE]

Where is the crèche in relation to that map where Madeleine was picked up at 5.30pm?

If it's below that car park then it seems like they walked from there at 5.30pm and around to the front entrance of 5A and not to the back as said in that 10 May statement.

I would like to know what was Madeleine's last known route from the apartment and  by walking... off to search for that in the files.
And if that last route matches the dogs route than that is it. But if it doesn't then it would be her new last known route.

[pathfinder73]

The route from the crèche to the apartment is Madeleine's last known route outside at 5.30pm?

[VIXTE]

kate mccann witness statement on May 4th describing Madeleine's route for the Thursday May 3

At 12.30pm, they collected their children and had lunch in their apartment, as it had a kitchen. After lunch, at around 1.30pm, the children spent time near the club's swimming pool, supervised by the parents, for about 45 minutes, where they played, applied sun cream etc. After this time, they placed the children back at the "Kids Club" until around 5/5.30pm, the time when the children ate at a bar under the watchful eyes of the parents. After the 5pm dinner, they bathed the children, prepared them for the night and let them play for a while at a playground next to the tennis courts, still and always under parental supervision. At around 8pm, the children were put to bed until the following morning, when the described routine started all over again.

So according to this, Madeleine's last known route would be from apartment to a playground next to the tennis courts. Is this on the dogs route? Where these playgrounds are?

[VIXTE]

The route from the crèche to the apartment is Madeleine's last known route outside at 5.30pm?

I am talking about a route 'from apartment ' as the dogs started from apartment.

[pathfinder73]

kate mccann witness statement on May 4th describing Madeleine's route for the Thursday May 3

So according to this, Madeleine's last known route would be from apartment to a playground next to the tennis courts. Is this on the dogs route? Where these playgrounds are?

The dogs may have lost the scent at the car park. I want to find the last known route of Madeleine from the creche to the apartment so I can compare the two?

[VIXTE]

The dogs may have lost the scent at the car park. I want to find the last known route of Madeleine from the creche to the apartment so I can compare the two?

Actually that what I posted is the daily routine.. it wasn't the routine of the May 3.
It is very hard to read their statements!
Here is Gerry's account

The tennis class finished at 11H15, he stayed in the pool area talking with his wife and other people, whom he does not remember. At 12H00, he agreed with KATE, as he recalls it, that she would make lunch and the deponent would pick up MADELEINE. He thinks that it was KATE who took the twins home. Since it was he who went to collect MADELEINE, he is sure he used the short-cut. what he means by short cut???

At 12h30 they started lunch, the meal having lasted an hour, until 13h30. After that time they made their way to the resort play area, the deponent having left through the front door and the rest of the family through the back door that, once again, he shut and locked from the inside. As for the front door, he does not know exactly if he locked it. Here you go, this is the last known route of Madeleine leaving apartment.. did she come back  and leave again????

They stayed in the play area for approximately an hour, until 14H30/14H35. After that, they left the twins at the crèche near the TAPAS, they signed the register, and the three of them (deponent, KATE and MADELEINE) made their way to the crèche at the main reception, where they arrived at 14H50 and delivered MADELEINE, not being able to say precisely who signed the register.

The deponent and KATE returned to the OCEAN CLUB by the short-cut and at the secondary reception they asked the lady employee if there was a vacant tennis court they could reserve. They were told there was a vacancy between 14H30 and 15H30. As it was already 15h00, they began to play immediately. At 15H30, the tennis instructor arrived, who taught them a class until 16H30.

They stayed there, talking, until 16H45, at which time the twins went to the meal area. At 17h00, as usual, MADELEINE arrived accompanied by the nannies and the other children. After her arrival, MADELEINE dined, having finished at 17H30.

After 17H30 they went to the apartment, the deponent having entered by the main door, which he did not lock while he was inside the residence. KATE and the children entered by the back door, after this had been opened from the inside by the deponent.

They bathed the children, the deponent having left at 18H00 for a tennis game only for men, which was attended by: DAN, the tennis instructor; JULIAN, with whom he had played tennis several times; and CURTIS, with whom he had also played before.

[VIXTE]

Here you go.. dogs route can be a part of home to creche path

MC is where the creche is. TB is Tapas Bar.

Have the parents ever described what route they took from home to creche?

But note that last time Madeleine entered the apartment she did not enter through the front door but through the patio doors.
edit: She also made her last known exit through the patio doors.

This means the dogs route should have been investigated because Madeleine that day neither went through the main door or came back through the main door, the route the dogs choose.. meaning that it is possible that she did indeed go out her last time through the main doors with the kidnapper

[Redblossom]

The dogs may have lost the scent at the car park. I want to find the last known route of Madeleine from the creche to the apartment so I can compare the two?

The live scent  dogs seem to have tracked a trail that Gerry referred to in his May 10 statement....sorry id this doesnt help, this subject is one of the more confusing ones....but certainly Madeleine would not have returned home going via the back alleyways.....


From memory, on Tuesday, 1 May 2007, being shown by RUSSELL, he went to pick up MADELEINE at creche using a short-cut that began at the car park opposite the secondary reception and went between the
buildings, which he used to fetch and carry his daughter.
Snip
That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they left the residence by the main door, to place the children in the respective creches, MADELEINE left [went] running to the left to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they had gone down to the furthest point away from those blocks, not knowing exactly how, the three children got into the gardens at the rear [of the blocks]. Then they followed the inside corridor [pathway] at the rear, next to the hedges [fences] up to the street that led to the secondary reception.

[VIXTE]

The live scent  dogs seem to have tracked a trail that Gerry referred to in his May 10 statement....sorry id this doesnt help, this subject is one of the more confusing ones....but certainly Madeleine would not have returned home going via the back alleyways.....


From memory, on Tuesday, 1 May 2007, being shown by RUSSELL, he went to pick up MADELEINE at creche using a short-cut that began at the car park opposite the secondary reception and went between the
buildings, which he used to fetch and carry his daughter.
Snip
That, between Monday and Wednesday, not knowing the precise date, when they left the residence by the main door, to place the children in the respective creches, MADELEINE left [went] running to the left to the extreme opposite of the residential blocks where they were lodged, playing with the twins. That they had gone down to the furthest point away from those blocks, not knowing exactly how, the three children got into the gardens at the rear [of the blocks]. Then they followed the inside corridor [pathway] at the rear, next to the hedges [fences] up to the street that led to the secondary reception.

I thought the dogs would pick up the last route.
Why would they pick up a route of May 1st?
They could simply go through the patio doors and to the playground, then to creche, that would be her last ( strongest) route?
I am not satisfied with this May 1st explanation.. it is too far in past.. Madeleine walked around many times after that!

[pathfinder73]

Thank you everyone for maps and info. So it looks like they used a short cut from the creche and they came to that car park where the dogs found her strong scent.

Now the interesting part - from the dogs tracking it looks like Madeleine actually returned to the apartment going to the front entrance of 5A from the creche and not entering from the back?

[VIXTE]

Thank you everyone for maps and info. So it looks like they used a short cut from the creche and they came to that car park where the dogs found her strong scent.

Now the interesting part - from the dogs tracking it looks like Madeleine actually returned to the apartment going to the front entrance of 5A from the creche and not entering from the back?

The dogs wouldn't work this way. Their starting point is the last place the missing person is seen.  And the last place she was seen is her bedroom.
All dogs separately went through the main doors, not a single dog used the patio doors.
IMO this means Madeleine on her last exit from that apartment went out through the front doors, not the patio doors.

So far what I believe from this is that:
Person who took Madeleine spent some time in the apartment ( from around 9pm to around 9.40 pm) and they took Madeleine out through the front door and to the car park.
Now, the question is whether the dogs would pick up the scent if she was carried and if she was god forbid dead while being carried?

[AnneGuedes]

The dogs may have lost the scent at the car park. I want to find the last known route of Madeleine from the creche to the apartment so I can compare the two?

Madeleine crossed that car park for the last time around 5pm East-West, then she crossed Francisco GM and entered in the tapas resort.