Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?

[pathfinder73]

Could a mod kindly start another thread about The Moving Door and transfer the posts. Thanks.

[Wonderfulspam]

Bump for pathfinder

[Wonderfulspam]

Could a mod kindly start another thread about The Moving Door and transfer the posts. Thanks.

Could Admin kindly make pathfinder a mod, then he can do it himself.

Thanks.

[John]

New thread started as requested.

My own view on the moving door is as previously stated.  Opening the patio door would result in a change of pressure within the apartment, any wind had the potential to move an internal door.

[pathfinder73]

New thread started as requested.

My own view on the moving door is as previously stated.  Opening the patio door would result in a change of pressure within the apartment, any wind had the potential to move an internal door.

Thank you John and WS. The wind would move the door to exactly half-open each time? Very doubtful IMO. The window being open then I think it would slam shut before Kate arrived.

[pathfinder73]

In your previous posts (see above), maybe I misunderstood, but IMO you seemed to be suggesting that the check at about 8.30pm was by 2 people and was visual. I constructively (and BTW politely) raised  the possibilty both those details might be improved.
What you post now IMO refers to a completely different time, about 7.30pm, JIMO.

Does it really matter? Kate can't seem to remember if she checked or not and that would've been the last time she saw her daughter - you'd thought she'd try to remember if she did or not after 4 months  ("Before leaving they checked on the children, she doesn't know who; however Gerry says it was him").

The whole point is when Gerry last saw her before they left for the tapas bar and when he returned on his first check at 9 Madeleine was in exactly the same position. Now I and many others would take that to mean that she hasn't woken up and left the bed. But you don't agree? She has woken up to go to the bathroom and has ended up on the bed in exactly the same position and place when Gerry last saw her before they left. Well I don't believe that for one second.

There's two realistic possibilities in my mind (the wind one I'm not including):

1. Somebody else moved the door

2. The door didn't move

[John]

Does it really matter? Kate can't seem to remember if she checked or not and that would've been the last time she saw her daughter - you'd thought she'd try to remember if she did or not after 4 months  ("Before leaving they checked on the children, she doesn't know who; however Gerry says it was him").

The whole point is when Gerry last saw her before they left for the tapas bar and when he returned on his first check at 9 Madeleine was in exactly the same position. Now I and many others would take that to mean that she hasn't woken up and left the bed. But you don't agree? She has woken up to go to the bathroom and has ended up on the bed in exactly the same position and place when Gerry last saw her before they left. Well I don't believe that for one second.

There's two realistic possibilities in my mind (the wind one I'm not including):

1. Somebody else moved the door

2. The door didn't move

...or the entire story is a load of bollocks.   

[pathfinder73]

...or the entire story is a load of bollocks.   

So is that option 2 

[drummer]

She has woken up to go to the bathroom and has ended up on the bed in exactly the same position and place when Gerry last saw her before they left. Well I don't believe that for one second.


Maybe it was her favourite sleeping position, we all have them. I prefer to sleep on my stomache and if I feel the need for the loo during the night I then return to bed in my usual sleeping position, my OH is a pain cos his is the starfish position.

[icabodcrane]

She has woken up to go to the bathroom and has ended up on the bed in exactly the same position and place when Gerry last saw her before they left. Well I don't believe that for one second.


Maybe it was her favourite sleeping position, we all have them. I prefer to sleep on my stomache and if I feel the need for the loo during the night I then return to bed in my usual sleeping position, my OH is a pain cos his is the starfish position.

Mrs Fenn said she heard a child crying in the McCanns' apartment for an hour and a quarter on Tuesday night

Kate says Madeleine told her she had been crying for them on Wednesday night

Why then,  would this three year old who had previously behaved in just the way we might expect a three to behave on waking up alone in unfamiliar surroundings  ...  crying  for mum and dad   ...   suddenly,  on  Thursday night behave quite differently  ?

On Thursday night,  we are being aske to believe,  she woke up again  ...  only this time,  for some reason,  this three year old  didn't  cry or call out  for mum and dad  ...  this time she calmy got out of bed in the dark,  went to the bathroom,  and then,  unperturbed,  went back to bed on her own and was peacefully asleep in no time

It simply doesn't play

[pegasus]

List of possibilities for how exit from kids bedroom occured
1. Child was carried/bundled by someone through window from kids bedroom to outside.
2. Child climbed through window from kids bedroom to outside .
3. Child was carried by someone from kids bedroom into another room.
4. Child walked/ran from kids bedroom into another room.
5. Child was never in kids bedroom that evening.

IMO number 4 is likely to be what happened.
Action number 4 would naturally increase the door angle opening from less-than to more-than child width. 

It seems many here are disagreeing with number 4.
Please offer a better alternative then.
Do you think number 1 2 3 or 5 is correct?  >@@(*&)

[sadie]

List of possibilities for how exit from kids bedroom occured
1. Child was carried/bundled by someone through window from kids bedroom to outside.
2. Child climbed through window from kids bedroom to outside .
3. Child was carried by someone from kids bedroom into another room.
4. Child walked/ran from kids bedroom into another room.
5. Child was never in kids bedroom that evening.

IMO number 4 is likely to be what happened.
Action number 4 would naturally increase the door angle opening from less-than to more-than child width. 

It seems many here are disagreeing with number 4.
Please offer a better alternative then.
Do you think number 1 2 3 or 5 is correct?  >@@(*&)

Sorry, but thta is sounding very unlike you.  It is sounding as though you are pretending to know that no abduction took place.  It is sounding like propaganda tbh


The most obvious thing is that Madeleine was picked up and walked out via the front door.  Same as that is the most likely way that the abductor came in.

[sadie]

New thread started as requested.

My own view on the moving door is as previously stated.  Opening the patio door would result in a change of pressure within the apartment, any wind had the potential to move an internal door.

That is entirely true 

[sadie]

Doors suddenly closing, curtains billowing
There were two factors here.
 
 
1.  The Mechanics of Rotary Motion.  The door moves in a rotary manner; it moved around the hinged edge.  There are Laws of Mechanics which explain this, but they are a bit involved
 

So, let us consider a simpler explanation, based on these Laws, using the extremities of the rotary motion.  Say, in the same situation as in Madeleines bedroom, a window was open and a gust came thru it.  That gust would be termed as a force. 

 
i)  If the door were completely open, only the edge of the door would be receiving that force.  The force according to these Laws would have virtually no rotary turning moment, the force would almost all go into the hinge.  The door would not move.
 
ii)  If the door were almost closed, most of its face would be at almost right angles to the force (the gust) and the force would divide into two forces upon hitting the door, the major part causing a rotary turning moment, with just a little going into the hinge.  If the gust were strong enough, the door would slam.
 
From this it goes without saying that the closer the door was to being shut, the greater the turning moment on it.  The closer it was to be fully open the less likely it would be to slam shut.  Hence as Kate closed it the turning moment increased and combined with a gust the door tried to slam shut
 
2.  The wind was gusting at up to 20mph.  An unexpected gust could have caused the door to suddenly close.  A slightly open window, or door, on the south or east of the building would accentuate it.  In other words a through draft.,
But with a strong gust it could have happened anyway.
 
 
Hope I have explained this so that everyone can understand..

[pegasus]

Sorry, but thta is sounding very unlike you.  It is sounding as though you are pretending to know that no abduction took place.  It is sounding like propaganda tbh
The most obvious thing is that Madeleine was picked up and walked out via the front door.  Same as that is the most likely way that the abductor came in.

My post was not exclusively non-abduction at all, it covers all theories IMO. 
Thanks for your example (person carries child out front door).
That BTW would be included in number 3 in my list, because to get from the bedroom to the front door he/she  would first carry her from the bedroom through the internal doorway into another room (the open-plan livingarea/hallway)?  And from there out the front door.
So presumably in your proposal the bedroom door angle would be increased by that person when he/she enters the bedroom via the bedroom door.