Did the moving door have any relevance to Madeleine's disappearance?

[AnneGuedes]

You can't forget history but the doors are not history, not anything. There is absolutely nothing to say what position the doors were or weren't in, and if that changed or not. If the 9.15 sighting was part of a strategy of the McCanns, so was Gerry's suggestion that the door at 9.00 was further open.

One way or another, we had no way of knowing what the status of the doors were on the night, no matter who was giving the account and why, and we have no way of knowing now.

One reason to do a reconstitution, not a CW show.
Nobody is here over evaluating the bedroom door.
The fact is Mr McCann didn't say much to the PJ, a few hours after having lost his daughter, but he told that the bedroom door was more open that he had left it.

[Benice]

That's true, and it could now be said that draughts or Madeleine herself moved the door, but the Emma Loach films, and the book, are a record of the apparent wish to suggest the door had been moved by person or persons unknown. There was no suggestion in those sources that the two phenomena may have been unconnected. The films, book, and police statements are the history that cannot be changed now.

But they can be updated if new evidence or new leads come to light.     Nothing is set in concrete.

[AnneGuedes]

The films, book, and police statements are the history that cannot be changed now.

In Les Misérables, Victor Hugo says that Napoléon "did history and wrote it".

[Lyall]

In Les Misérables, Victor Hugo says that Napoléon "did history and wrote it".

That was a man who knew what he was talking about Anne

[Lyall]

But they can be updated if new evidence or new leads come to light.     Nothing is set in concrete.

Yes, police statements are

[AnneGuedes]

That was a man who knew what he was talking about Anne

And he talked ! He was banned from France in 1851 because he criticised Napoleon III (the "small") and then banned from Jersey en 1855 because he criticised Queen Victoria.

[pathfinder73]

They didn't count on Matthew Oldfield checking instead of Kate at 9.30pm and finding the door open the way Gerry said he had found it at 9.05pm. I don't believe Madeleine was in the apartment when they left for the tapas bar.

[Cariad]

It was windy the nights before
http://www.geodata.us/weather/show.php?usaf=085540&uban=99999&m=5&c=Portugal&y=2007#

Thank you Anne. So it was actually windier on the 2nd then, yet the door didn't move that night when the patio was opened. I think that no added significance would have been added to it on the 3rd if it had.

It's also worth considering that these were two highly intelligent people who would probably have managed to make a causal link between a windy night and a moving door. They didn't, so we shouldn't.

They have connected it with an abductor. The implication binge that s/he was in the apartment at the same time as Gerry during his 9:05 check. In fact, iirc Gerry actually said at one point that he felt as those he may not have been alone?

Icabod, I'm glad you started this thread. Since the bundleman debunking (sorry Admin, possible debunking) I've been wondering about that door. I can see three options:

1, The abductor was in the apartment before 9:05.

2, The door never moved and we are being asked to believe the abductor was in the apartment before 9:05 to fit in with Bundleman.

3, Madeleine woke twice and left the bedroom twice, once before 9:05, then again before 9:30.

If it's 1 we can dismiss Smithman as the abductor as he's really unlikely to have only got ten minutes away in an hour.

If it's 2 there was no abductor.

If it's 3 What's to say Madeleine didn't leave under her own steam?


I'm sure others can add to the possibilities of  The Tale of the Moving Door.

The one thing I can't do is decide that it's no longer significant because Bundleman was actually Innocentman.

[jassi]

Fickle thing wind - you never know when its going to strike.

[AnneGuedes]

Icabod, I'm glad you started this thread. Since the bundleman debunking (sorry Admin, possible debunking) I've been wondering about that door. I can see three options:

1, The abductor was in the apartment before 9:05.

2, The door never moved and we are being asked to believe the abductor was in the apartment before 9:05 to fit in with Bundleman.

3, Madeleine woke twice and left the bedroom twice, once before 9:05, then again before 9:30.

If it's 1 we can dismiss Smithman as the abductor as he's really unlikely to have only got ten minutes away in an hour.

If it's 2 there was no abductor.

If it's 3 What's to say Madeleine didn't leave under her own steam?


I'm sure others can add to the possibilities of  The Tale of the Moving Door.

The one thing I can't do is decide that it's no longer significant because Bundleman was actually Innocentman.

After announcing a new time line as breaking news, we discover that they're not certain but behave and deduce and focus exactly as if they were. Are they kidding ?
They could be certain, since they identified a possible innocent father.
They exhibit pyjamas obviously different from those described by Ms Tanner and all they say is that they're quite similar. Are they kidding ?
They avoid the question of the route SYman took from the creche, al-right, but instead of saying if SYman crossed GMartins where Tannerman did, they say it was close to the McCann flat. Are they kidding ?

The mystery of the moving door is certainly interesting.
At about 20.30 the couple left to have dinner in the restaurant.
At about 21.05 – 21.15 Gerald went to the bedroom to see the children, he saw the bedroom door was half way open which he found strange as he thought he had left it pushed to, however he entered and saw the children and saw that the window as well as the shutter were closed.
At about 21.20, their friend Jane passed by the apartment (along the corridor of the main entrance) she saw an individual carrying a child who passed descending the road, however she did not recognise this individual, nor the child, only having noticed that the individual appeared to be aged between 30 or 40, had dark hair and light coloured trousers.
At about 21.30 their friend Mat entered the apartment by the back door (patio door) he did not enter the bedroom and only saw the twins sleeping, he did not notice anything strange.
At the same place, at about 22.00 Kate discovered the facts and the consequent disappearance of her daughter Madeleine, at this moment the window being wide open as well as the curtains and the shutter.
Vol I  pp. 2-10
This the fresher statement of all.

[AnneGuedes]

how could the same wind have pushed open a door  when it made the door slam shut at 10 pm ?

[icabodcrane]

Thank you Anne. So it was actually windier on the 2nd then, yet the door didn't move that night when the patio was opened. I think that no added significance would have been added to it on the 3rd if it had.

It's also worth considering that these were two highly intelligent people who would probably have managed to make a causal link between a windy night and a moving door. They didn't, so we shouldn't.

They have connected it with an abductor. The implication binge that s/he was in the apartment at the same time as Gerry during his 9:05 check. In fact, iirc Gerry actually said at one point that he felt as those he may not have been alone?

Icabod, I'm glad you started this thread. Since the bundleman debunking (sorry Admin, possible debunking) I've been wondering about that door. I can see three options:

1, The abductor was in the apartment before 9:05.

2, The door never moved and we are being asked to believe the abductor was in the apartment before 9:05 to fit in with Bundleman.

3, Madeleine woke twice and left the bedroom twice, once before 9:05, then again before 9:30.

If it's 1 we can dismiss Smithman as the abductor as he's really unlikely to have only got ten minutes away in an hour.

If it's 2 there was no abductor.

If it's 3 What's to say Madeleine didn't leave under her own steam?


I'm sure others can add to the possibilities of  The Tale of the Moving Door.

The one thing I can't do is decide that it's no longer significant because Bundleman was actually Innocentman.

That's a very reasonable analysis

I agree with you that if the explanation for the twice opened bedroom room door is that an abductor was in the apartment as early as 9.05pm,  then it is highly unlikely that he was seen almost an hour later by the Smith family

However,  if  that was  the case then we are left with the equally unlikely scenario of an abductor,  Gerry McCann,  Jez Wilkins,  Jane Tanner,  and an innocent father carrying a child ALL  there at the same time

It looks more and more like an over-egged pudding

[Benice]

how could the same wind have pushed open a door  when it made the door slam shut at 10 pm ?

A breeze gusting through the open patio doors with the bedroom window closed, could have opened the bedroom door, and then later on another breeze gusting through the bedroom window with the patio door closed slammed the door?

Lots of variables are possible with a gusty wind/breeze blowing especially when 3 sides of the building are exposed to the elements -  - unlike the apartments which were  inbetween two others and more sheltered.

We need a wind expert.    (errrm - no -  better not make any suggestions)   



 

 

[icabodcrane]

A breeze gusting through the open patio doors with the bedroom window closed, could have opened the bedroom door, and then later on another breeze gusting through the bedroom window with the patio door closed slammed the door?

Lots of variables are possible with a gusty wind/breeze blowing especially when 3 sides of the building are exposed to the elements -  - unlike the apartments which were  inbetween two others and more sheltered.

We need a wind expert.    (errrm - no -  better not make any suggestions)   



 

 

If that was the explanation then it  would have happened on other nights too   ...  it didn't

[Lyall]

A breeze gusting through the open patio doors with the bedroom window closed, could have opened the bedroom door, and then later on another breeze gusting through the bedroom window with the patio door closed slammed the door?

Lots of variables are possible with a gusty wind/breeze blowing especially when 3 sides of the building are exposed to the elements -  - unlike the apartments which were  inbetween two others and more sheltered.

We need a wind expert.    (errrm - no -  better not make any suggestions)   

Clarence is your man in that field Benice