Author Topic: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.  (Read 32593 times)

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Offline jassi

Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #105 on: October 21, 2013, 09:14:07 AM »
The Telegraph is running an interesting story today.
  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/10392700/Maria-mystery-deepens-as-neighbours-claim-her-father-came-to-visit.html

It is claimed that the real parents left the child with the Roma family while they worked elsewhere in Greece and that the father would regularly visit the child, the last time as recently as 5 days ago.

Perhaps everything is not quite as initially reported.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

Offline Carana

Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #106 on: October 21, 2013, 10:45:55 AM »
I have been doing a bit of research into child abduction from bed and I must admit that the only examples I can find are American ones - thought there are a good few examples nonetheless:

Elizabeth Smart, 2002. This is a very famous case, in the US as at least, and an interesting and involved one. An abductor entered the home in the middle of the night and took Elizabeth, then aged 14, from a bedroom she shared with her 9 year old sister. The sister witnessed the abductor at length, but did not call out to alert anyone as she was afraid he would kill her and her sister.

Elizabeth was admittedly much older than Madeleine - and therefore, one would think, harder to subdue and exit with undetected.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping

Rosie Tapia, abducted from her bed in 1995, age 6, and murdered.

http://mylifeofcrime.wordpress.com/2007/03/13/rosie-tapia-murder-81395-salt-lake-city-ut-unsolved-murder/

Both girls were from Salt Lake City, Utah.

And a more recent example, from Los Angeles:

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/29/local/la-me-kidnapped-20130329

And another case, from Georgia, that involved a burglary:

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/09/17/ayvani-hope-perez-missing-georgia-home-invasion


No sign of gypsies, though it's a completely different demographic.



I did find a related piece on the topic of abduction from bed, however:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865558906/Child-abductions-from-homes-exceptionally-rare-expert-says.html

The piece contains an interesting insight:

''And while such brazen abductions are a parent's worst fear, they don't happen often, according to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

"We do see them from time to time, but they are exceptionally rare," said Bob Lowery, executive director of the Virginia-based center's missing child division.

"We have the expectation that when we are at home, we are safe," he said. "This is a different kind of predator that will engage in something that high-risk because of the motivation for what he wants to do with that child."


Sherlock's question from this article is:

Does that statement, if true, suggest that someone willing to enter a child's bedroom at night, with all the risks that that entails, would be unlikely to be a person merely in the employ of higher-up or group who wanted a child to sell or pass on, or use for their own purposes?

For him to have been prepared to make such a brazen move, would he be a man operation alone, driven by his own nefarious drives?

The circumstances around children being snatched from home or residence are bound to differ. Here are a few other cases, in which the abductor had a previous criminal history and apparently acted alone.

- A UK one, but from a bath while the child's mother was in another room.

Willington Quay child abduction case
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The Willington Quay child abduction was a case of the abduction and rape of a 6-year-old girl in Willington Quay, North Tyneside, England, on 27 December 2005, when she was taken while in the bath. A local man, Peter Voisey, a known sex offender, was later convicted of the crime and sentenced to life in prison. The brazen nature of the crime sparked widespread media interest and a Crimewatch appeal. It also sparked the largest ever man-hunt by Northumbria Police. Assertions by the police that the crime had been a case of opportunistic abduction from the home by a stranger were initially met with scepticism, given the seemingly unbelievable nature of the crime.[1] Voisey's conviction also sparked a review of the multi-agency public protection arrangements (MAPPA), which govern the monitoring of past offenders.

The girl was abducted from her ground-floor bath as her mother was next door room. She was driven around the local area for 20 minutes, before being found naked in a snow-covered back alley. Initially, police only had the girl's eyewitness account of a "man in a red car" identified by her as a Vauxhall Astra, with no other witnesses present.[2] The only forensic evidence the police could obtain was a footprint in the bathroom, and a partial DNA trace from the girl's fingernail. Through careful interview with the girl, it was ascertained from the route she was driven, that the offender had a good knowledge of the local area.

Voisey, a.k.a. Smith, was originally questioned because he was a registered sex offender, as part of a wide sweep of local people who might be of interest. Originally a known sneak thief, committing high risk burglaries with a chance of discovery,[2] he had been convicted in 2001 of sexually assaulting a 12-year-old girl in a swimming pool changing room in Cheshire.[3] He was not initially considered a priority lead, as he had been classified low risk due to good behaviour.[2] Voisey initially appeared good natured, and had a good account of his movements. He continued to strenuously deny any involvement when further interviewed.

With no strong evidence, Voisey was convicted from a multitude of lesser clues.[2] This included his local knowledge and his mobile phone records which proved he was not where he claimed to be at the time. The trainer print had been matched to a pair he owned, only five of which had been sold in the North East that year. He had made a cryptic diary entry for the day in question, "Phew it's over, chill now", which he claimed referred to Christmas. He had also owned a red Astra, although this was scrapped before it could be seized as evidence. It was also concluded, although a partial match, that there was a high chance of the DNA found being Voisey's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willington_Quay_child_abduction_case

- Different again: a guy raped and murdered Caroline Dickinson (UK) in a French hostel dorm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/girl-murdered-on-school-trip-to-france-1329474.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Arce_Montes

- Someone "known" to the family snatched a 3-year-old when she and her mum had just come home from a shopping trip and the mother was on the phone. It's unclear whether he was a friend or a slight acquaintance.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/jan/05/ukcrime.childprotection


Benita

  • Guest
Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #107 on: October 21, 2013, 10:48:32 AM »
why was maria being treat special to the other kids ..her own room lots of toys etc ..or was that room staged for the camera's ? ..

Offline Admin

Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #108 on: October 21, 2013, 11:38:12 AM »
The Telegraph is running an interesting story today.
  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/10392700/Maria-mystery-deepens-as-neighbours-claim-her-father-came-to-visit.html

It is claimed that the real parents left the child with the Roma family while they worked elsewhere in Greece and that the father would regularly visit the child, the last time as recently as 5 days ago.

Perhaps everything is not quite as initially reported.

Common sense tells me that if it was a simple case of child minding gone wrong then the arrested parents wouldn't have told a pack of lies to begin with.

All very iffy?

Offline jassi

Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #109 on: October 21, 2013, 11:42:00 AM »
Common sense tells me that if it was a simple case of child minding gone wring then the arrested parents wouldn't have told a pack of lies to begin with.

All very iffy?

Agreed. It does seem as if they were into benefit fraud judging by all those birth certificates, so that might be the basis of their lies.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

Offline Benice

Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #110 on: October 21, 2013, 11:50:04 AM »
The Telegraph is running an interesting story today.
  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/10392700/Maria-mystery-deepens-as-neighbours-claim-her-father-came-to-visit.html

It is claimed that the real parents left the child with the Roma family while they worked elsewhere in Greece and that the father would regularly visit the child, the last time as recently as 5 days ago.

Perhaps everything is not quite as initially reported.

Thanks for that Jassi, but if the real father is frequently around why would he not come forward.  A DNA test is all it would have taken to clear this couple.   And yet he watched them be arrested and his  own' daughter' taken away?

I suppose it could be that he is part of a benefits scam involving his daughter - and has just disappeared to avoid arrest himself.

We shall have to wait and see.




The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline jassi

Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #111 on: October 21, 2013, 01:06:02 PM »
The Telegraph says he is Bulgarian. Perhaps in Greece illegally and doesn't want to come to the attention of the authorities.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #112 on: October 21, 2013, 01:51:42 PM »
The Telegraph is running an interesting story today.
  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/10392700/Maria-mystery-deepens-as-neighbours-claim-her-father-came-to-visit.html

It is claimed that the real parents left the child with the Roma family while they worked elsewhere in Greece and that the father would regularly visit the child, the last time as recently as 5 days ago.

Perhaps everything is not quite as initially reported.
[/quote

Thanks for that article, jassi

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #113 on: October 21, 2013, 01:53:27 PM »
The circumstances around children being snatched from home or residence are bound to differ. Here are a few other cases, in which the abductor had a previous criminal history and apparently acted alone.

- A UK one, but from a bath while the child's mother was in another room.

Willington Quay child abduction case
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The Willington Quay child abduction was a case of the abduction and rape of a 6-year-old girl in Willington Quay, North Tyneside, England, on 27 December 2005, when she was taken while in the bath. A local man, Peter Voisey, a known sex offender, was later convicted of the crime and sentenced to life in prison. The brazen nature of the crime sparked widespread media interest and a Crimewatch appeal. It also sparked the largest ever man-hunt by Northumbria Police. Assertions by the police that the crime had been a case of opportunistic abduction from the home by a stranger were initially met with scepticism, given the seemingly unbelievable nature of the crime.[1] Voisey's conviction also sparked a review of the multi-agency public protection arrangements (MAPPA), which govern the monitoring of past offenders.

The girl was abducted from her ground-floor bath as her mother was next door room. She was driven around the local area for 20 minutes, before being found naked in a snow-covered back alley. Initially, police only had the girl's eyewitness account of a "man in a red car" identified by her as a Vauxhall Astra, with no other witnesses present.[2] The only forensic evidence the police could obtain was a footprint in the bathroom, and a partial DNA trace from the girl's fingernail. Through careful interview with the girl, it was ascertained from the route she was driven, that the offender had a good knowledge of the local area.

Voisey, a.k.a. Smith, was originally questioned because he was a registered sex offender, as part of a wide sweep of local people who might be of interest. Originally a known sneak thief, committing high risk burglaries with a chance of discovery,[2] he had been convicted in 2001 of sexually assaulting a 12-year-old girl in a swimming pool changing room in Cheshire.[3] He was not initially considered a priority lead, as he had been classified low risk due to good behaviour.[2] Voisey initially appeared good natured, and had a good account of his movements. He continued to strenuously deny any involvement when further interviewed.

With no strong evidence, Voisey was convicted from a multitude of lesser clues.[2] This included his local knowledge and his mobile phone records which proved he was not where he claimed to be at the time. The trainer print had been matched to a pair he owned, only five of which had been sold in the North East that year. He had made a cryptic diary entry for the day in question, "Phew it's over, chill now", which he claimed referred to Christmas. He had also owned a red Astra, although this was scrapped before it could be seized as evidence. It was also concluded, although a partial match, that there was a high chance of the DNA found being Voisey's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willington_Quay_child_abduction_case

- Different again: a guy raped and murdered Caroline Dickinson (UK) in a French hostel dorm
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/girl-murdered-on-school-trip-to-france-1329474.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Arce_Montes

- Someone "known" to the family snatched a 3-year-old when she and her mum had just come home from a shopping trip and the mother was on the phone. It's unclear whether he was a friend or a slight acquaintance.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2006/jan/05/ukcrime.childprotection

Thanks for theses more local examples, Carana. I have not been living in the UK for a while and missed the one from Tyneside - terrible.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #114 on: October 21, 2013, 04:18:30 PM »
But no little child taken from bed..

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #115 on: October 22, 2013, 01:28:25 AM »
The Greek couple have been charged with abduction:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24605954

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #116 on: October 22, 2013, 01:50:24 AM »
In 2011 was dismantled the "gang of Bulgarian babies". 17 pregnant Bulgarian women went to Greece (no adoption laws) to sell their babies. Each baby was sold 15/20 .000 euros, a ridiculous amount compare to the ransom offered for Madeleine.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #117 on: October 22, 2013, 02:03:48 AM »
In 2011 was dismantled the "gang of Bulgarian babies". 17 pregnant Bulgarian women went to Greece (no adoption laws) to sell their babies. Each baby was sold 15/20 .000 euros, a ridiculous amount compare to the ransom offered for Madeleine.

Dreadful, Anne. I hadn't heard of this ring. Sadly there are probably many of them.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #118 on: October 22, 2013, 02:21:24 AM »
This ever evolving story is a sad one for the little girl in question

I do not see any connection with Madeleine McCann though

Whatever happened to that  little girl, almost certainly had nothing to do with being  'sold to Gypsies' 

Offline Angelo222

Re: Greek police appeal over mystery blonde girl found living in a Roma camp.
« Reply #119 on: October 22, 2013, 09:27:29 AM »
This ever evolving story is a sad one for the little girl in question

I do not see any connection with Madeleine McCann though

Whatever happened to that  little girl, almost certainly had nothing to do with being  'sold to Gypsies'

How do you know??

When you have the likes of Angelina Jolie going round the world effectively buying children what sort of an example does this set??
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!