Praia Da Luz Church

[pegasus]

http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/sahlketaylorsearch8.jpg
In photo there are hundreds of small pieces of tree just inside this outlet.
Is it driftwood deposited by the sea at high tide?
Or has it come down the tunnel from countryside during heavy rainfall?

[Redblossom]

Of course, it's true. He didn't say it, it was the Engineer Martins from Lagos town hall who said it. Furthermore, the respective documents were attached to his report. So, how could Ricardo Paiva lie?

Just another person on ferrymans list of "liars"...best ignored

[pathfinder73]

"Kate was going to provide us, indirectly, with indications about where her daughter’s body was to be found. Thus, at the beginning of June, she informed us that the body could have been hidden in the outlet of a sewer pipe at Praia da Luz, or on the cliffs to the west of the beach, where she happened to run. She will say later that this information had been given to her by mediums possessing psychic power." (Truth of the Lie)

Doesn't anyone else think that there's something very strange going on here? Mind games? These could have been the two places she was moved to on the first night - 1st sewer pipe 6 hours later to the cliffs/rocha negra.

No mention of a psychic writing that Amsterdam letter. That certainly is interesting for further mind games.

[AnneGuedes]

"Kate was going to provide us, indirectly, with indications about where her daughter’s body was to be found. Thus, at the beginning of June, she informed us that the body could have been hidden in the outlet of a sewer pipe at Praia da Luz, or on the cliffs to the west of the beach, where she happened to run. She will say later that this information had been given to her by mediums possessing psychic power." (Truth of the Lie)

Strangely enough it seems Madeleine was "more dead" before the dogs popped up than after, when any mention of that not implausible hypothesis aroused vehement protests of no evidence of harm, etc.

[pathfinder73]

Strangely enough it seems Madeleine was "more dead" before the dogs popped up than after, when any mention of that not implausible hypothesis aroused vehement protests of no evidence of harm, etc.

Hi Anne, The book is getting interesting. This is before the mysterious letter which I haven't even got to yet:

"Describing a white house near a dirt track is not helpful."

[AnneGuedes]

On the 8th of May, Mrs McCann informed the LC that "a friend of a friend of an aunt of hers had a "bright vision" of Madeleine on a boat anchored in Lagos Marina".
Three police officers visited the vessel Shearwater (indicated by Mrs McCann), inspected it entirely and made photographs. The boat and the crew had been known in Lagos for 8 years. The report concluded that no anomalous situation was found.
But
On the 20th of May, when the police tells her that a couple has informations for her, Mrs McCann, who finally realises that this is a more or less psychic couple, declares "How had the police allowed such a situation to arise?"

 

[colombosstogey]

"Kate was going to provide us, indirectly, with indications about where her daughter’s body was to be found. Thus, at the beginning of June, she informed us that the body could have been hidden in the outlet of a sewer pipe at Praia da Luz, or on the cliffs to the west of the beach, where she happened to run. She will say later that this information had been given to her by mediums possessing psychic power." (Truth of the Lie)

Doesn't anyone else think that there's something very strange going on here? Mind games? These could have been the two places she was moved to on the first night - 1st sewer pipe 6 hours later to the cliffs/rocha negra.

No mention of a psychic writing that Amsterdam letter. That certainly is interesting for further mind games.

I found it odd she could talk about the her childs dead body, yet ignored the dogs findings...

[sadie]

http://www.mccannfiles.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/sahlketaylorsearch8.jpg
In photo there are hundreds of small pieces of tree just inside this outlet.
Is it driftwood deposited by the sea at high tide?
Or has it come down the tunnel from countryside during heavy rainfall?

Or has it been deposited there by human hand, to prevent people going in  ... and finding where the tunnel connects to?

This tunnel comes out on to the tiny western beach, where there has been much specualtion that a boat might have come in, or lain there, ready to take Madeleine way.

[pegasus]

Or has it been deposited there by human hand, to prevent people going in  ... and finding where the tunnel connects to?

This tunnel comes out on to the tiny western beach, where there has been much specualtion that a boat might have come in, or lain there, ready to take Madeleine way.

There is a modern round pipe outlet a little to the east of the tiny beach, and another modern round pipe outlet a little to the west of the tiny beach, so I think this older rectangular outlet is maybe not part of the modern rainwater system. Also the many twigs maybe indicate this is water flowing not from street gullies, but from countryside?
Maybe this outlet is a conduit for a stream which was built over when the town was constructed (guess). Do you know if there are any entrances looking like this on the north side of town where maybe a stream flows into a conduit and under the town?

[sadie]

[Hey Pegasus, the keys to the church were received on Tue 8 May. Have you any plans of the church? What's underneath it? Were there any reports of any bad smells there or just rumours?] (Pathfinder)

I am not sure if the keys were given Tue or a previous day. They were visited by both denominations sooner than that.
Have no plans of church and no indication of catacombs cellars or secret tunnels.
There are several modern circular drain outlets on the shore.
On the rocks at the small beach below the fortaleza there is an old big rectangular drain outlet there is a photo somewhere of two exsoldier searchers checking it but I don't know where it drains from. (Pegasus)

[Thanks. I've seen the pipe picture with the soldiers. I'm wanting to know if there is a cellar or access to a room underneath the church? Sat 12 May Madeleine's 4th Birthday at Church. Any reports of bad smells?

p.s. Sat 5th May when Patricia Cameron arrived. She said they had a car to use. It would be interesting to know which car that was in light of the Carolyn Kish discrepancy sighting on the 7 May?] (Pathfinder)

[At the small beach it is not a pipe, it looks much older, see the last outlet here http://www.mccannfiles.com/id340.html] (Pegasus)

This big opening?

When we were there in 2010, to the south of the church and very close, within its grounds, there appeared to be a large diameter circular entrance in the ground.  This had a giant crude ?concrete "stopper" closing it off.  It made sense that there was a tunnel underneath.

And if you examine Gearth images you will see that there is an outlet in the sea "cliff" which appears to be in more or less in line.  However this outlet may have nothing to do with the vertical shaft (I believe) beneath that "stopper".

I did not measure the diameter of the top of the "shaft" but I would guestimate from memory that it was about 2' 6" diameter, cos it was quite sizeable.  The stopper was immense and would take several men to roll it away.

To the north of the church is a tiny little cemetery.  That also is within the grounds of the church

The whole area is quite compact.

[sadie]

[SNIP]
On the rocks at the small beach below the fortaleza there is an old big rectangular drain outlet there is a photo somewhere of two exsoldier searchers checking it but I don't know where it drains from. (Pegasus)


[At the small beach it is not a pipe, it looks much older, see the last outlet here http://www.mccannfiles.com/id340.html] (Pegasus)

This big opening?

This tunnel comes out on to the small rocky beach where there was much speculation that a boat may have been lying, or one may have come in for pick up.  The channel you see was almost certianly natural, NOT cut, and it may well travel in for a really good distance.  In which case I wonder which buildings might it have linked to?

1)  The Fortaleza? which was an expensive looking restaurant when we were there?  Old forts do sometimes have ancient tunnels radiating out
2)  The Bull pub?  If it was used for smuggling this could have been the link to it.
3)  The house adjacent to the pub, or the house behind, on the seashore side of that house?

These natural phenomenas can be extremely long.  In Puerto de la Cruz, Tenerife, [which is volcanic in origin, as I believe PdL is] there is a rift in the ground where one massive area of the ground is raised about 15 stories high, for over a quarter of a mile.  This rift is running in a more or less straight line
If the tunnel that we see the entrance to, went back that far in a straight line, it would reach Ocean Club apartments passing Sergie Malinkas place en route.

I must make it clear that I am not a geologist.

I am only speculating, but I do wonder why the entrance has been filled with branches ... Is it something to do with Madeleines abduction? .... is it to stop people tracing the tunnel back to its source?  .... to where she vanished out of sight?

...... and there are other things about this that I haven't the time, energy, or inclination to go into at present.

Several months ago, I worked with someone else on this and I need help from that person, before I can progress any further.  It will be after Christmas if we decide to share.

[pegasus]

Thankyou Sadie for all that information especially about the channel in the rock.
Yes now I think you may be correct that the channel is natural (and I was wrong to assume it was cut by humans).
I am guessing that before the modern town was built, a stream from higher ground in the north followed this natural fault in the rock, to get to the sea, and later when the modern town was built, the stream was built over, making it a stream in a tunnel under the town. But it is only a guess.

[pathfinder73]

That's not far from the church.

[icabodcrane]

Or has it been deposited there by human hand, to prevent people going in  ... and finding where the tunnel connects to?

This tunnel comes out on to the tiny western beach, where there has been much specualtion that a boat might have come in, or lain there, ready to take Madeleine way.

How do you know where this tunnel   (  if that is what it is  )   'comes out'   ? 

[AnneGuedes]

Oh dont go there lol.....not got the energy tonight for some of those people

You were right, I shouldn't have gone there !