Author Topic: Praia Da Luz Church  (Read 97001 times)

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Offline pegasus

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #120 on: May 14, 2014, 02:14:46 AM »
... Ocean ... bag,  weighted ...
There was in 2007 some strange posts about that. (not on a forum or blog but in the comment sections under spanish news articles)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 02:17:01 AM by pegasus »

Offline Brietta

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #121 on: May 14, 2014, 02:40:21 AM »
'I was deceived' says the Portuguese priest who comforted Gerry and Kate McCann
Last updated at 10:03 18 October 2007

The Portuguese priest who comforted Gerry and Kate McCann in the days after Madeleine vanished last night said he had been deceived, it has emerged.
According to reports, Father Jose Manuel Pacheco claimed he had done nothing wrong and was simply "supporting two lost souls."
But, bizarrely, he also appeared to say he had been the victim of some form of deception.


They became so close to Father Pacheco, he gave them the keys to the tiny building so they could go in to pray whenever they liked.
However, his friendship with the couple appeared to spectacularly backfire after  police becameconvinced Kate had told him she had killed her daughter during confession.
 
But he has vowed to take whatever she had said to the grave, despite being quizzed by detectives.
 
Father Pacheco appeared to virtually vanish from the public eye in the weeks after Gerry and Kate were made arguidos - or official suspects.
 
The pair left Portugal without saying goodbye and handed the church keys to another clergyman.

 
Last week, police moved in to search the churchyard and there has been some suggestion that they may consider digging for Madeleine's body at the location.
 
Father Pacheco, runs two churches and teaches at three local schools, yesterday broke his silence.
 
According to the Daily Express, he admitted he had become too close to the couple, still official suspects in the disappearance of their daughter.
 
"I was deceived," he said.
 
"I was just doing my job supporting lost souls. I would do that with any family who were in their situation. I didn't do anything wrong.
 
Father Pacheco, 46, said he had felt compelled to help Kate and Gerry because of their "inconsolable grief".


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488262/I-deceived-says-Portuguese-priest-comforted-Gerry-Kate-McCann.html#ixzz31dnzsimB
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Just a conglomoration of more internet myths.

Were you aware that Father Pacheco speaks no English ... and the Drs McCann spoke no Portuguese ... makes rather a nonsense of your statement ... it would have been impossible for him to hear a confession.

Taken from the PJ files

Translation of Father Pachecos Statement to the PJ 30th October 2007

Jose Manuel Conceicao Pacheco

The first time he had contact with the McCann's was on 5th May at about 19.00. This was a personal contact with them in the Ocean Club at their apartment, but not the apartment Madeleine disappeared from. They were accompanied by members of the holiday group.

This was an important meeting for the McCann's and which had not been possible to the fact that they were busy. He knows that on the fateful night the McCann's requested the presence of a priest, but he was only informed the following morning.

On the 5th, the theme they talked about was the disappearance and he gave all possible spiritual comfort and they prayed together. They also agreed that the couple would go to the church the following day to attend a mass.

He also prayed with the McCann's on the 6th and 8th May in their apartment.

He gave them the key to the church on the 7th or 8th May upon the suggestion of John Geraghty, a resident of the parish, so that they could calmly go to the church without any media pressure. Someone from the church gave the key to John Geraghty, who then passed it on to the McCann's, with Father Pacheco's permission.

He does not remember the date upon which the key was returned.Other contact with the McCann's took place at the end of mass when he would comfort them.

He would also meet with the McCann's after they returned from their trips and remembered they were animated when they returned from Morocco as they thought they would Madeleine there. He also comforted Kate when the news of a child buried in Arau broke, as she revealed great nervousness and anxiety, thinking that the child had died.

When questioned, he said he never heard their confessions, perhaps because they only spoke English.

He never talked to them alone.

He states that they showed great suffering to the loss of their daughter.

He adds that a parish bulletin was published giving spiritual, moral and human support to the couple and to other missing children.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FATHER_PACHECO.htm

Right ... that's got one myth out of the way.
Now let's look at your second assertion ...

Praia da Luz priest denies reports in UK newspaper
Updated: 13-Dec-2007

By: CECÍLIA PIRES

cecilia@portugalresident.com

PRAIA DA Luz church is receiving the image of Our Lady of Fátima on Monday, December 18, in a special visit to the region and this is the reason why ribbons and images of Madeleine McCann have been temporarily removed from its interior, according to father José Manuel Pacheco, the local catholic priest .

Praia da Luz’s community “has not forgotten the little British girl and special prayers are still being held every Friday,” father José Manuel Pacheco told The Resident.

The catholic priest was reacting to reports in the UK’s Daily Express in which he is said to have “ordered the removal of scores of green and yellow ribbons which were put up as a symbol of hope in the days after Madeleine vanished”. The British newspaper quotes a “close friend to the priest” as saying that the latter “can’t even hear the Madeleine case mentioned without becoming irate.” A statement that father José Manuel Pacheco describes as “barbarity” and a “lie”. “I do not know who that ‘friend’ might be, but I doubt such person is my friend”, he told The Resident.

Father José Manuel Pacheco ensures that “priests have no power to order anything in our churches. We have an entity for that, which is the Conselho Pastoral, where the catholic community is represented”.

Church key

With regards to the key to Praia da Luz church that the McCanns were given after Madeleine went missing, so that the couple could pray in privacy, “that was a decision made by the Conselho Pastoral and I only knew about it three days later”.

Father José Manuel Pacheco said: “Madeleine McCann’s parents know that we support them and that is the most important thing. The family kept very close and good relations with the church and its representatives in Praia da Luz”.


http://www.algarveresident.com/23328-0/algarve/praia-da-luz-priest-denies-reports-in-uk-newspaper

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Silkywhiskers

  • Guest
Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #122 on: May 14, 2014, 02:54:40 AM »
Insane.

Father Pacheco speaks both Portugese and English fluently.

The masses he presents (and writes!) in PDL are in both languages.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #123 on: May 14, 2014, 03:10:50 AM »
From Kate's book, page 105 ;

"That evening the local priest,  Father Jose Manuel Pachecho, who had returned to Luz, came to our apartment to introduce himself and offer hs support.  My first impression was of a very cheery chap.   Nothing wrong with that, but at the time his smiling face seemed out of place in the grief-laden atmosphere of our apartment."

From Kate's book,  page 107 ;

"Padre Ze,  whose jolly demeanour had seemed so at odds with our distress the previous evening, was in his element here ...    (  Kate is speaking of Sunday Mass at the church where,  she recalls,   Father Pachecho was  'given a bit if a dust-down'  by one of the local ladies who adjusted his robes almost as if he was an untidy schoolboy  )  ...  He was certainly a character, full of life and passion.  Recollections of Kenny Everett in the guise of his singing pastor,  Brother Lee Love,  would often spring to mind in the coming weeks" 

That's a pretty demeaning  'summing up'   of the priest who gave them the keys to his church,  isn't it  ? 

Why did Kate  DO  that  ?   ...  why did she think it necessary to point out her perceived  'short-comings'  of the priest   ? 

Offline Brietta

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #124 on: May 14, 2014, 03:12:15 AM »
Insane.

Father Pacheco speaks both Portugese and English fluently.

The masses he presents (and writes!) in PDL are in both languages.

When questioned, he said he never heard their confessions, perhaps because they only spoke English.

Possibly it is "Insane" to take from that sentence that Father Pacheco did not speak english ... but there you are.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Brietta

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #125 on: May 14, 2014, 03:20:07 AM »
From Kate's book, page 105 ;

"That evening the local priest,  Father Jose Manuel Pachecho, who had returned to Luz, came to our apartment to introduce himself and offer hs support.  My first impression was of a very cheery chap.   Nothing wrong with that, but at the time his smiling face seemed out of place in the grief-laden atmosphere of our apartment."

From Kate's book,  page 107 ;

"Padre Ze,  whose jolly demeanour had seemed so at odds with our distress the previous evening, was in his element here ...    (  Kate is speaking of Sunday Mass at the church where,  she recalls,   Father Pachecho was  'given a bit if a dust-down'  by one of the local ladies who adjusted his robes almost as if he was an untidy schoolboy  )  ...  He was certainly a character, full of life and passion.  Recollections of Kenny Everett in the guise of his singing pastor,  Brother Lee Love,  would often spring to mind in the coming weeks" 

That's a pretty demeaning  'summing up'   of the priest who gave them the keys to his church,  isn't it  ? 

Why did Kate  DO  that  ?   ...  why did she think it necessary to point out her perceived  'short-comings'  of the priest   ?

When I read the description I had a fond smile on my face as it is a very familiar scene for me and no doubt for many people.

I think Dr McCann has great fondness and respect for Father Pacheco ... and I find it sad you think she was pointing out his shortcomings ... that is not the picture I have.


"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline pegasus

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #126 on: May 14, 2014, 03:29:09 AM »
When questioned, he said he never heard their confessions, perhaps because they only spoke English.

Possibly it is "Insane" to take from that sentence that Father Pacheco did not speak english ... but there you are.
Insanely sensible.
Also see ROB rogatory statement: language barrier when on 4th he phoned a catholic priest.
The portuguese catholic church kindly allow the english-based anglican church of the algarve to share the Nossa Senhora church and to conduct their english services there.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 03:31:39 AM by pegasus »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #127 on: June 06, 2014, 06:42:41 PM »
"Spanish TVE1 just said Gerry and a male friend were seen by the church the night Madeleine disappeared - that´s why they want to dig up somewhere near the church. I have been there but don´t know exactly where they want to dig. " (11 Sep 07)

"Me and Gerry you know I'm not sure what time it was, it was you know between three and four o' clock when, again looking for her. We went down err through past the Ocean Club reception, we went down err to the beach." (David Payne)
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Carana

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #128 on: June 06, 2014, 07:55:25 PM »
'I was deceived' says the Portuguese priest who comforted Gerry and Kate McCann
Last updated at 10:03 18 October 2007

The Portuguese priest who comforted Gerry and Kate McCann in the days after Madeleine vanished last night said he had been deceived, it has emerged.
According to reports, Father Jose Manuel Pacheco claimed he had done nothing wrong and was simply "supporting two lost souls."
But, bizarrely, he also appeared to say he had been the victim of some form of deception.

They became so close to Father Pacheco, he gave them the keys to the tiny building so they could go in to pray whenever they liked.
However, his friendship with the couple appeared to spectacularly backfire after  police becameconvinced Kate had told him she had killed her daughter during confession.
 
But he has vowed to take whatever she had said to the grave, despite being quizzed by detectives.
 
Father Pacheco appeared to virtually vanish from the public eye in the weeks after Gerry and Kate were made arguidos - or official suspects.
 
The pair left Portugal without saying goodbye and handed the church keys to another clergyman.

 
Last week, police moved in to search the churchyard and there has been some suggestion that they may consider digging for Madeleine's body at the location.
 
Father Pacheco, runs two churches and teaches at three local schools, yesterday broke his silence.
 
According to the Daily Express, he admitted he had become too close to the couple, still official suspects in the disappearance of their daughter.
 
"I was deceived," he said.
 
"I was just doing my job supporting lost souls. I would do that with any family who were in their situation. I didn't do anything wrong.
 
Father Pacheco, 46, said he had felt compelled to help Kate and Gerry because of their "inconsolable grief".


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488262/I-deceived-says-Portuguese-priest-comforted-Gerry-Kate-McCann.html#ixzz31dnzsimB
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

What were the articles at the time in the the PT press?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #129 on: June 07, 2014, 01:42:45 AM »
They've got to get the dogs close to the church and start investigating there because that's where Smithman really went. The church is the key to open this case wide open!
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #130 on: June 07, 2014, 04:38:57 PM »
What are the two cases?...
Your theory seems to conjecture possible concealment in a church.
I remember only two cases of concealment in a church.
One was below the floor, another was up in the roof, I will dig out the links for you.
BTW just realised I must be Dr. Bunsen Honeydew, the only muppet with a scientific approach A.K.A. looking at behaviour of perps in past cases, a valuable method.
I will post two links soon.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 04:43:15 PM by pegasus »

Offline pegasus

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #131 on: June 07, 2014, 04:56:33 PM »
@ pathfinder: Links as promised.
Scotland concealment below floor with police photo of exact location
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24430345
Italy concealment in roof with police photos of exact location
http://vitaliquida.blogspot.co.uk/2011/03/omicidio-di-elisa-claps-trovato-il-dna.html
Please note an important point: neither case involved transporting anything to a church area.

IMO the church in the current case is irrelevant, however those two links are extremely valuable because the are two examples (and there are more) of the danger of subconscious irrational assumption by the human investigator's brain.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 05:24:22 PM by pegasus »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #132 on: June 07, 2014, 06:27:23 PM »
Thanks for sharing Pegasus. I remember that evil Tobin.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #133 on: June 07, 2014, 06:38:53 PM »
Your theory seems to conjecture possible concealment in a church.
I remember only two cases of concealment in a church.
One was below the floor, another was up in the roof, I will dig out the links for you.
BTW just realised I must be Dr. Bunsen Honeydew, the only muppet with a scientific approach A.K.A. looking at behaviour of perps in past cases, a valuable method.
I will post two links soon.

Thanks. I don't believe she was concealed inside the church because if she was discovered the ones with the keys would be arrested.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline pegasus

Re: Praia Da Luz Church
« Reply #134 on: June 07, 2014, 06:44:34 PM »
Thanks for sharing Pegasus. I remember that evil Tobin.
For that perp of multiple crimes, evil is an understatement, there is no word for it.

BTW do you see here the huge value of looking at past cases?
Re your conjecture of concealment in a church (incorrect IMO) the past cases give you first the knowledge, yes such a thing has two precedents at least, and more important they give you two examples of exact locations which evaded detection, and two examples of the brain functioning of the perp. And more broadly, two very interesting examples of  investigator brain malfunction.

« Last Edit: June 07, 2014, 06:47:01 PM by pegasus »