Author Topic: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm  (Read 26546 times)

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Offline Anna

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2015, 12:33:54 PM »
Anna what makes you think there was a "struggle"?

I thought that Neville had tried to stop the shooter and therefore there would have been a struggle to protect himself. I had better do some more reading, I think.
 
And all that about shell cases could they not have been moved? I suspect the whole scene as it was found was staged to look the way that the killer wanted it to look. The police didn't do too much in observing the scene, because they believed that SC done it.
 
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2015, 03:25:58 PM »
I thought that Neville had tried to stop the shooter and therefore there would have been a struggle to protect himself. I had better do some more reading, I think.
 
And all that about shell cases could they not have been moved? I suspect the whole scene as it was found was staged to look the way that the killer wanted it to look. The police didn't do too much in observing the scene, because they believed that SC done it.

My understanding/interpretation is that NB sustained four gunshot wounds upstairs (as evidenced by bullet casings and pathology report).  Two  shots to his face would have killed him had  the other shots to his head in the kitchen not supervened.  That's how serious the facial shots were.  The pathologist  states they would have caused extreme pain and loss of blood internally and externally.  The shot  he received to his left arm rendered it "totally impaired".  The other shot was to the shoulder and only grazed it.  Therefore I have deduced from this that by the time NB reached the kitchen he was in no fit state to struggle with anyone.  Hence Dr V refers to a "spirited defence".  My interpretation of all of this is that NB was only capable of raising his right arm to shield himself from the blows raining down from the rifle. 

A "struggle" contradicts JM's WS's where she talks of NB putting up a fight in the kitchen.  It also contradicts the relatives theories about a "struggle" in the kitchen with the silencer damaging the Aga surround.  I'm convinced there was no struggle and this is supported by Peter Sutherest, photographic expert, analysing SoC photos and coming to the conclusion that the scratch marks on the Aga surround were made AFTER the tragedy!
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2015, 06:39:04 PM »
Peter Sutherst's findings were contradicted by another photographic expert and so correctly rejected by the CCRC.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2015, 02:18:45 PM »
Peter Sutherst's findings were contradicted by another photographic expert and so correctly rejected by the CCRC.

I thought the CCRC said police wit stats must take precedence over Peter Sutherst's findings?  Do we have the details of this other expert's findings?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Passer-by

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2015, 07:10:51 PM »
Certainly I think it's much more likely SC would do the twins first (and pull so hard on the trigger that the gun fired more than necessary - but perhaps one shot each at first and then returned later to be sure), but that JB would do Nevill first:  which is why I find it odd that it is was June who most of the action seems to have been aimed at in the bedroom.  I don't think Nevill was in the bedroom when June was shot, I think he was downstairs, either up and about for something farming-related or talking to SC.  I read somewhere that only SC had partially-digested food in her stomach even though they had all eaten together, indicating she was up and ate something during the night and perhaps this disturbed Nevill and he went down to join her, then whilst putting the kettle on maybe he heard shots above his head from the boys room, phoned for help, dashed upstairs whilst June was being shot on the bed, was beaten back with shots to the face and arm fired from within the bedroom, ran back downstairs and collapsed in his chair, where the assailant beat him with the gun which was reloaded for more finishing shots to all the victims.

I think the marks to the arm most look like he was hit with the rifle barrel with the integral sight making the rounded bruises:  and that strikes me as quite a feminine way of hitting someone with a rifle (in those days perhaps?).  Having read up on and posted links to the surprising ability of the brain to keep functioning despite being shot, allowing people whose front temperature lobes are damaged to keep running for up to 20 secs, I'd say NB was only able to react instinctively and turn to protect his injured left shoulder and raise his right arm over his head to receive the blows.  I don't think he was able to struggle, he was already too badly injured.  It would be obvious he could not call for help and he was on the other side of the kitchen from the phone:  whoever beat him was either very angry or panicking he wouldn't die.  I would have thought at this point Bamber would know he stood between the phone and Nevill, he had the bullets in a box beside him and he would have calmly reloaded without the panick.  But then I think he would have known the likelihood of a .22 killing a man as big as Nevill and shot him in the head repeatedly as the first victim.  Hitting with a 'stick' is more the sort of aggression I'd expect from a feminine woman not used to fighting.  And I believe she had previously set about SC hitting him as well? (Do correct me if I got that bit wrong!)

Offline Myster

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #50 on: August 06, 2015, 07:15:51 PM »
I thought the CCRC said police wit stats must take precedence over Peter Sutherst's findings?  Do we have the details of this other expert's findings?

I've wasted soooo much time searching for his name on the net.  Seen it in the distant past so might have been deleted.  You'll just have to take my word... for once!
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline John

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #51 on: August 06, 2015, 07:38:37 PM »
I thought the CCRC said police wit stats must take precedence over Peter Sutherst's findings?  Do we have the details of this other expert's findings?

Wasn't there a TV programme done about the case which challenged Mr Sutherst's view?
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #52 on: August 06, 2015, 07:57:15 PM »
I've wasted soooo much time searching for his name on the net.  Seen it in the distant past so might have been deleted.  You'll just have to take my word... for once!

Yes you're right...for once!  8(0(*

Andy Laws of LGC forensics challenged the findings on the basis they were inconclusive:

Point 5:

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/forensic-evidence
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Passer-by

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #53 on: August 06, 2015, 08:12:01 PM »
Yes you're right...for once!  8(0(*

Andy Laws of LGC forensics challenged the findings on the basis they were inconclusive:

Point 5:

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/forensic-evidence

However you look at it, the whole moderator thing stinks.  I think they all thought it was impossible for a suicide to shoot themselves twice so hunted around for some 'evidence'.

That all perfectly illustrates the reversal of burden of proof in this case as well:  the onus should be on proving the moderator - which would be inadmissible in a modern court because of the manner in which it was found - was on the gun, not the defence having to prove it wasn't, but the CCRC will only accept evidence that unequivocally contradicts the original flawed evidence.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2015, 08:12:52 PM »
Certainly I think it's much more likely SC would do the twins first (and pull so hard on the trigger that the gun fired more than necessary - but perhaps one shot each at first and then returned later to be sure), but that JB would do Nevill first:  which is why I find it odd that it is was June who most of the action seems to have been aimed at in the bedroom.  I don't think Nevill was in the bedroom when June was shot, I think he was downstairs, either up and about for something farming-related or talking to SC.  I read somewhere that only SC had partially-digested food in her stomach even though they had all eaten together, indicating she was up and ate something during the night and perhaps this disturbed Nevill and he went down to join her, then whilst putting the kettle on maybe he heard shots above his head from the boys room, phoned for help, dashed upstairs whilst June was being shot on the bed, was beaten back with shots to the face and arm fired from within the bedroom, ran back downstairs and collapsed in his chair, where the assailant beat him with the gun which was reloaded for more finishing shots to all the victims.

I think the marks to the arm most look like he was hit with the rifle barrel with the integral sight making the rounded bruises:  and that strikes me as quite a feminine way of hitting someone with a rifle (in those days perhaps?).  Having read up on and posted links to the surprising ability of the brain to keep functioning despite being shot, allowing people whose front temperature lobes are damaged to keep running for up to 20 secs, I'd say NB was only able to react instinctively and turn to protect his injured left shoulder and raise his right arm over his head to receive the blows.  I don't think he was able to struggle, he was already too badly injured.  It would be obvious he could not call for help and he was on the other side of the kitchen from the phone:  whoever beat him was either very angry or panicking he wouldn't die.  I would have thought at this point Bamber would know he stood between the phone and Nevill, he had the bullets in a box beside him and he would have calmly reloaded without the panick.  But then I think he would have known the likelihood of a .22 killing a man as big as Nevill and shot him in the head repeatedly as the first victim.  Hitting with a 'stick' is more the sort of aggression I'd expect from a feminine woman not used to fighting.  And I believe she had previously set about SC hitting him as well? (Do correct me if I got that bit wrong!)

Passer-by just a quickie on the above - CAL met with Dr V for her book she mentions the partially digested food and Dr V  stated it was no different for the other victims he just didn't note it!
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2015, 08:29:34 PM »
Gouge marks please!
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Myster

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #56 on: August 06, 2015, 08:33:04 PM »
Yes you're right...for once!  8(0(*

Andy Laws of LGC forensics challenged the findings on the basis they were inconclusive:

Point 5:

http://www.jeremy-bamber.co.uk/forensic-evidence

You're a better woman than I am, Holly Din.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Myster

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2015, 08:37:48 PM »
Gouge marks please!

I think we've exhausted the gouge marks - they were defence wounds caused by pistol-whipping... with the rifle barrel.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2015, 09:10:34 PM »
I think we've exhausted the gouge marks - they were defence wounds caused by pistol-whipping... with the rifle barrel.

I agree.