Jeremy Bamber - The gouge marks on Nevill's arm

[Myster]

A lot of people think they could be cigarette burns. This doesn't actually narrow the field of suspects down as lots of people smoked in the 80s including Sheila and Jeremy. 3/8 of an inch would be about the diameter of a cigarette I think.

I thought that they were cigarette burns when it was first raised in the ITV documentary last Spring, but others disagreed.
I can just picture somebody having completed his vicious task, having a smoke, pulling the pyjama collar back, and stubbing it out three times on the nape of Nevill's neck.

[John]

John... I don't think the arm photos are available in the document library here, are they?

I know you put them up once before, because I downloaded them (colour and b&w) to my own pc.

I have merged the two threads relating to the gouge marks on Nevill's arm.  If you scroll back a page you can see the marks clearly.

[John]

The gouge marks on Nevill's arm look as if they have been caused by being battered with the rifle.  Could it be that the splintered stock or the magazine caused the damage?

Here is a good picture of the murder weapon giving an idea of its length with the sound moderator fitted.

[puglove]

The gouge marks on Nevill's arm look as if they have been caused by being battered with the rifle.  Could it be that the splintered stock or the magazine caused the damage?

Here is a good picture of the murder weapon giving an idea of its length with the sound moderator fitted.

The wounds were caused by something that was both jagged and heavy. Ralph was obviously holding up his good arm to try and defend himself from the severe beating - the broken stock seems most likely.

[Angelo222]

The assault on Nevill was a mistake as far as Jeremy Bamber was concerned, just like having to shoot everyone several times and Sheila twice.  The frenzied assault on Nevill  came about because Jeremy had run out of ammunition and the only way to stop Nevill getting to the kitchen phone was to hit him over the head with the stock of the rifle.

Sheila wasn't as tall as her father and was very light framed, she wouldn't have had the strength to do what was done to Nevill and end up without a mark or a scratch on her.  Remember too that whoever assaulted Nevill in the kitchen smashed the glass lampshade and would have had glass on their feet.  A bare footed Sheila would have cut her feet and would have had glass shards on the soles of them.  Fact is no such glass was found on Sheila's feet.

[Myster]

The gouge marks on Nevill's arm look as if they have been caused by being battered with the rifle.  Could it be that the splintered stock or the magazine caused the damage?

Here is a good picture of the murder weapon showing the damaged stock.

There are several narrow parallel bruises matching the width of the rifle barrel, and several gouge wounds.

Could the latter have been caused by the front-sight hood (the cylindrical part which covers the actual sight itself to stop extraneous light affecting your view when the rifle is aimed in the normal way).

Vanezis noted that there were 4 marks caused by the "rounded end of that object".

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The rifle in your photo looks a different one to the actual murder weapon held by PC Whiddon -

1). The short cylindrical front-sight hood is missing. (arrowed)

2). The stock where his right hand is holding the rifle doesn't look damaged, (arrowed) although it's just as difficult
      to see any damage in the Whiddon photo.

If this photo was taken on the 7th. August 1985 why is a moderator fitted, when it was only discovered days later by David Boutflour?
Could this be Anthony Pargeter's Anschütz rifle?
I'm trying to figure out in which part of the house that photo was taken and who it was holding the rifle.... is he a plain clothes policeman?

[Myster]

Undamaged Anschütz 525 (top) compared with damaged stock on the actual murder weapon (bottom)....,



Are you confusing the chin cut-out at the stock end of the rifle with the damaged part in the middle?

The damaged stock above the trigger can be seen more easily in the crime scene colour photo of Sheila Caffell. (arrowed)

[John]

Myster, I believe this is the same rifle used in the picture I previously posted above.

This was a Press photo taken at the time of the murders and widely used by several newspapers.  It stated that it depicted a rifle similar to that used by Jeremy Bamber.  Unlike the actual murder weapon it didn't have a foresight hood fitted. 

Well spotted!   

[John]

Here is another one with the police officer holding the actual murder weapon.  As you have already stated, the damage to the stock (beneath his raised right thumb) can be clearly seen.

I believe this photo was taken after the trial and after the rifle had been forensically examined. 

[John]

The gouge marks on Nevill's arms were obviously defensive injuries he received somewhere between the bedroom and the kitchen.

[Holly Goodhead]

The gouge marks on Nevill's arms were obviously defensive injuries he received somewhere between the bedroom and the kitchen.

CAL states in her book when she met with Dr V he confirmed they were not from fingernails.  I thought in the reports on here he refers to them being caused by a blunt instrument.  I have taken this to mean the rifle.

[Anna]

CAL states in her book when she met with Dr V he confirmed they were not from fingernails.  I thought in the reports on here he refers to them being caused by a blunt instrument.  I have taken this to mean the rifle.

It could have been anything, since the struggle appears to have been a long one. No obvious injury from the struggle, on Jeremy or Sheila. The arm injury could have been when he fell by the fireplace.

[John]

It could have been anything, since the struggle appears to have been a long one. No obvious injury from the struggle, on Jeremy or Sheila. The arm injury could have been when he fell by the fireplace.

What about the scratch marks on Jeremy's arm which Julie reported?  That long sleeved cardy was very useful.

[Anna]

What about the scratch marks on Jeremy's arm which Julie reported?  That long sleeved cardy was very useful.

Ah! Julie again. Where did she and Brett disappear too? I will have to do more reading.
Anyway, I find it difficult to believe that a farmer would be without scratches etc.

[John]

Ah! Julie again. Where did she and Brett disappear too? I will have to do more reading.
Anyway, I find it difficult to believe that a farmer would be without scratches etc.

True but she reported them to be fresh scratches which had healed by the time the police got round to interviewing him.