Author Topic: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.  (Read 68834 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

A dinosaur might have abducted madeleine john....LOL sorry

what about the occultation

Offline Montclair

Does anyone know if the McCanns will regain their arguido status once the case reopened?

Benita

  • Guest
Does anyone know if the McCanns will regain their arguido status once the case reopened?


seeing as they are not persons of interest or suspects I doubt it..

Offline Montclair


seeing as they are not persons of interest or suspects I doubt it..

Do you know anything about Portuguese law?

Benita

  • Guest
Do you know anything about Portuguese law?

a little yes ..do you ?

Offline gilet

Do you know anything about Portuguese law?

I am sure I saw John holding you up as someone with his ear close to the heart of this case. Clearly you don't actually know anything about Portuguese law and the fundamental role in it of the arguido status or you would not have asked.

But a quick perusal of the relevant articles of the Penal Code (58 is a good starting place) suggests that there is no possibility of the McCanns who the PJ and SY both state (in the case of the PJ so far only via the media) have no involvement in the disappearance being constituted as arguidos again.

The reason for that is clear. Like most justice systems the Portuguese system demands evidence that the individual has committed an offence before action is taken against the person. That is made very clear by the Penal Code. It is not always clear from posts by Anti McCanns that they understand this need (I am not specifically referring to you in this instance) but it is a fundamental requirement.

Offline Jazzy

TV news this morning is leading with the story.


Offline jassi

Just looked at some online editions of newspapers and there seems to be no mention in Guardian, Independent, Telegraph or even Daily Mail. Is everything being swamped by the royal christening or are they just being a bit more circumspect and waiting until the Portuguese judiciary have made their decision ?
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

stephen25000

  • Guest
Listened to the 'story'.

What actually has changed ?

The Portuguese are considering re-opening the case.

New leads.................. 

What new leads exactly ?

Mr. Smith believed he saw mccann.

Proof/evidence of abduction ?

Still waiting on that one.

 



Offline Mr Gray

Listened to the 'story'.

What actually has changed ?

The Portuguese are considering re-opening the case.

New leads.................. 

What new leads exactly ?

Mr. Smith believed he saw mccann.

Proof/evidence of abduction ?

Still waiting on that one.

What has changed according the the Portuguese article is that

1 pj have applied to reopen the case

2 They will investigate the case as an abduction

stephen25000

  • Guest
We shall see.

Meanwhile where is the proof/evidence of abduction ?

Offline gilet

We shall see.

Meanwhile where is the proof/evidence of abduction ?

Oh dear.

Such a sad mantra, getting even sadder as the SY and PJ investigations progress.

Yes, we shall see. We shall see eventually why both SY and the PJ have abandoned the Amaral thesis, that one which the AG stated there was no evidence for, and have now focused their efforts on investigating the abduction of Madeleine.

But I fear that your demand that SY or the PJ should present you with the evidence they have for their claims they have made suggests a very poor lack of understanding of the way effective policing is done prior to the laying of charges. You may have been led astray by the chaotic handling of the early part of the investigation and by the leaks of material then which only the police held but which somehow fell onto the desks of journalists.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Chaotic investigation, hardly.

Didn't you hear the praise from Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe in the way  the PJ handled the investigation ?

What FACTS point to an abduction ?

Offline jassi

Chaotic investigation, hardly.

Didn't you hear the praise from Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe in the way  the PJ handled the investigation ?

What FACTS point to an abduction ?

None that have been made public, though there may be some pointers that we are not aware of.
I, for one, am quite content to let things take their course in the hope that a definitive result is achieved, as nothing less will settle the issue.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline gilet


Chaotic investigation, hardly.

Didn't you hear the praise from Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe in the way  the PJ handled the investigation ?

What FACTS point to an abduction ?


There have been very many examples of bungling and chaos regarding the initial handling of the disappearance.

These include those highlighted by Amaral himself including the failure of the photographer to take photos including people on his initial visit to PDL.

And they include basic policing failures such as that I have just highlighted elsewhere on this forum where it took five months before the PJ even bothered to go to Kelly's bar to retrieve the till receipts and interview staff there in relation to the potentially crucial witness statements of the Smith family. It was only after Rebelo took over that such a basic action was completed.

And no I didn't hear any praise from Sir Bernard of the PJ handling of the investigation. And that is because at no point in his LBC interview does Sir Bernard actually praise the handling of the Madeleine case by the PJ.

What he does do is explain that all investigations are beset by challenges and potential errors which could with hindsight have been better handled. Your mangling of that defence of police in general and twisting/spinning it into some kind of praise does you no credit at all.

Four facts known to us point to an abduction. They are

1. the disappearance of the child

in conjunction with

2. the fact that both the UK investigations and the PJ investigations have found no evidence of the involvement of the McCanns in that disappearance

followed up by

3, the fact that we know that the experts now of the PJ and SY in both instances are looking into abduction as a priority.

and

4. the known fact that there exists an unexplained sighting of a person carrying a child at a time which would suggest a very possible connection with the disappearance.

These four facts are not conclusive but they are nevertheless facts.

As with Jassi, I am content with these four facts for the moment and I await the further outcome of current investigations.

Clearly from your constant repetition of your sad mantra you are not.

We are both entitled to our opinions but it is completely wrong for you to state that there are no facts pointing to an abduction when it is clear that there are.



« Last Edit: October 24, 2013, 09:54:13 AM by gilet »