Author Topic: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.  (Read 68720 times)

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Offline gilet

Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #285 on: October 25, 2013, 12:57:49 AM »

You're misleading people, Gilet, and all you demonstrate is pure bad faith : you suggest Mr Smith was alone thinking he had crossed Mr McCann, whilst he said his wife agreed with him. Can't you understand why she didn't want to state ? It's just a question of finesse.
Then you pretend a waiter saw Mr McCann at the Tapas table when his wife alerted, but you omit saying that the same waiter saw the same man, possibly Mr McCann, coming back after being away for half an hour (i.e having time to cross the Smith family), a fact that neither Mr McCann nor none of his acquaintances reported.

I repeat there is no mistake in the post I made. Your claim that there is, is simply wrong.

There was no other statement that supported Martin Smith's assertion that the man they saw was possibly Gerry McCann. That is plain and simple fact and no matter how you spin the issue of the hearsay from Smith about his wife that will remain the plain and simple truth.

As for his wife refusing to make a statement to the effect that she agrees with what her husband claims, no, I have no idea why a woman might refuse to do so. It is not finesse to refuse to make such a statement at all. What is your supposition as to the reason?

With regard to the witness in the Tapas restaurant the Smiths did not leave Kelly's bar till 21.55 and the sighting was at 22.00, precisely when the witness places Gerry McCann in the Tapas Restaurant. Unless he can be in two places at once (which is impossible) then I am absolutely correct and there is, as I pointed out, an independent witness who places him in the bar at the time of the sighting.

I am afraid that the mistakes are yours. The three points I made are absolutely correct and are backed up with specific evidence from the files and you have failed completely to demonstrate otherwise.


Offline gilet

Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #286 on: October 25, 2013, 12:59:58 AM »
Several times the McCanns indicated the 9.15 and 10pm men might be one and the same, and there was no efit for 9.15 man, so why not use the ones they did have?

It's puzzling.

A puzzle maybe. But one that I suspect has been discussed between them and Scotland Yard. We are not privy to those discussions of course.

Personally, I have no idea what the reasons may have been but knowing that the McCanns have been in very close contact with SY I am sure there is no issue.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #287 on: October 25, 2013, 01:23:54 AM »
I repeat there is no mistake in the post I made. Your claim that there is, is simply wrong.

There was no other statement that supported Martin Smith's assertion that the man they saw was possibly Gerry McCann. That is plain and simple fact and no matter how you spin the issue of the hearsay from Smith about his wife that will remain the plain and simple truth.

As for his wife refusing to make a statement to the effect that she agrees with what her husband claims, no, I have no idea why a woman might refuse to do so. It is not finesse to refuse to make such a statement at all. What is your supposition as to the reason?

With regard to the witness in the Tapas restaurant the Smiths did not leave Kelly's bar till 21.55 and the sighting was at 22.00, precisely when the witness places Gerry McCann in the Tapas Restaurant. Unless he can be in two places at once (which is impossible) then I am absolutely correct and there is, as I pointed out, an independent witness who places him in the bar at the time of the sighting.

I am afraid that the mistakes are yours. The three points I made are absolutely correct and are backed up with specific evidence from the files and you have failed completely to demonstrate otherwise.
No, you haven't understood the finesse (I'm not surprised).
I'm afraid you don't understand the implication of your sticking to an (uncertain : "he could have been") identification of the second man with Mr McCann. Since no one from the group nor Mr McCann himself stated that he left the table after coming back from his chat with Mr Wilkins, you're simply accusing them of lying, at least by omission.
The time for the alert goes from after 21h30 to 22h10 depending on the witness and sometimes the statement of the same witness, a lot of time to meet the Smith family.

Aegean

  • Guest
Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #288 on: October 25, 2013, 01:53:36 AM »
Hello, I am new. I have a question: where is it stated that the Portuguese police are reopening the case with an abduction scenario? I have only been able to read the Portuguese press through google translate, but that only translates using the word "disappearance". Also, Scotland Yard statements do sometimes talk of abduction but they more often very carefully use only the word "disappearance", so it would be strange if the UK police are talking mainly of a disappearance but the Portuguese police are talking specifically of an abduction.

I could be wrong though and the Portuguese police have indeed opened up an abduction inquiry, but I've seen no information on this

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #289 on: October 25, 2013, 02:11:12 AM »
I think the Portuguese are investigating the abduction gang theory. SY are certainly investigating the Smithman lead because of the efits they released on Crimewatch.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 02:13:38 AM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Aegean

  • Guest
Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #290 on: October 25, 2013, 02:39:51 AM »
Thanks, but that's not the same as the Portuguese having specifically stated that they are pursuing an abduction theory, as the title of this thread and some of the posts in it imply.

SY are following the Smithman sighting, they're also following the charity collectors sightings and the Dutch or German men sightings. Are they pursuing these sightings as all being part of one single gang that was working together or as a number of separate and unrelated possibilities?

Offline Jazzy

Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #291 on: October 25, 2013, 05:45:30 AM »
Nope sorry mate but you dont !!!!! Fact

Did you quote the wrong post there?

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #292 on: October 25, 2013, 10:41:48 AM »
I repeat there is no mistake in the post I made. Your claim that there is, is simply wrong.

There was no other statement that supported Martin Smith's assertion that the man they saw was possibly Gerry McCann. That is plain and simple fact and no matter how you spin the issue of the hearsay from Smith about his wife that will remain the plain and simple truth.

As for his wife refusing to make a statement to the effect that she agrees with what her husband claims, no, I have no idea why a woman might refuse to do so. It is not finesse to refuse to make such a statement at all. What is your supposition as to the reason?

With regard to the witness in the Tapas restaurant the Smiths did not leave Kelly's bar till 21.55 and the sighting was at 22.00, precisely when the witness places Gerry McCann in the Tapas Restaurant. Unless he can be in two places at once (which is impossible) then I am absolutely correct and there is, as I pointed out, an independent witness who places him in the bar at the time of the sighting.

I am afraid that the mistakes are yours. The three points I made are absolutely correct and are backed up with specific evidence from the files and you have failed completely to demonstrate otherwise.

What is the name of the independent witness who,  with certainty,  said he saw Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at precisely 22.00pm  ?

Offline imustpointout

Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #293 on: October 25, 2013, 10:47:20 AM »
The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1101.0


706 Replies
18608 Views
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 10:49:10 AM by imustpointout »

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #294 on: October 25, 2013, 10:52:36 AM »
The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1101.0

If that supposition is wrong, even if he was (say) just visiting the gents at the exact moment of Kate's alert, it is amazing that Gerry's absence from the table was not noticed, especially given that he is Madeleine's father.

You'd have expected a full commentary in the file of efforts to find Gerry and tell him what had happened, including where he was when found and who found him.

The (excellent) reason for the absence of any such commentary in the files is that Joaoa Carlos (who wrote the final PJ report) had it right.

Gerry was in the Tapas Restaurant.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #295 on: October 25, 2013, 10:55:11 AM »
The evidence places Gerry McCann in the tapas bar at 10pm


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1101.0


706 Replies
18608 Views

Thank you

That thread made a thorough  investigation of the claim that independent witnesses said they saw Gerry at the tapas bar at   10pm ....  it was found that none did

However,  Gilet may have  found the name  and witness statement of a staff member we missed,  who  did say,  with certainty,  that he saw Gerry at precisely 10pm

That is why I ask,  again  ...  what is the witnesse 's name  ? 

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #296 on: October 25, 2013, 11:01:14 AM »
Hello, I am new. I have a question: where is it stated that the Portuguese police are reopening the case with an abduction scenario? I have only been able to read the Portuguese press through google translate, but that only translates using the word "disappearance". Also, Scotland Yard statements do sometimes talk of abduction but they more often very carefully use only the word "disappearance", so it would be strange if the UK police are talking mainly of a disappearance but the Portuguese police are talking specifically of an abduction.

I could be wrong though and the Portuguese police have indeed opened up an abduction inquiry, but I've seen no information on this
Hello Aegean and welcome on this forum !
You're right, the MP hasn't claimed that the PJ will investigate the abduction of Madeleine McCann as if it was a fact.
They said that new elements challenged the conclusions of the AG report and had to be inquired. The secret aspect of the investigation has been underlined.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #297 on: October 25, 2013, 11:22:06 AM »
Hello Aegean and welcome on this forum !
You're right, the MP hasn't claimed that the PJ will investigate the abduction of Madeleine McCann as if it was a fact.
They said that new elements challenged the conclusions of the AG report and had to be inquired. The secret aspect of the investigation has been underlined.

http://www.theportugalnews.com/

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #298 on: October 25, 2013, 11:31:14 AM »
Thank you

That thread made a thorough  investigation of the claim that independent witnesses said they saw Gerry at the tapas bar at   10pm ....  it was found that none did

However,  Gilet may have  found the name  and witness statement of a staff member we missed,  who  did say,  with certainty,  that he saw Gerry at precisely 10pm

That is why I ask,  again  ...  what is the witnesse 's name  ?
Gilet referred to page 122 at the bottom of which starts the statement of Mr Batista (Mr Batista refers to a group of 8/9, seeming to acknowledge the fact that on Sunday, Tuesday, Wednesday one of them was missing).
Gilet's trick is amazing deduction after extracting an element from a whole sentence. Mr Batista saying the "second man" came back after 30 minutes, shortly before all left the table except for one and could be the father of the child, becomes Mr McCann was at the table at 10 pm.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: Madeleine McCann case to be re-opened in Portugal as an abduction scenario.
« Reply #299 on: October 25, 2013, 11:38:25 AM »
http://www.theportugalnews.com/
Have you heard the "report from RTP", Ferryman ? Can you provide a link to such a claim by the MP?
Expresso, who always was defending the McCanns, doesn't say so.
http://expresso.sapo.pt/ministerio-publico-reabre-caso-maddie=f837383?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=mail&utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_content=2013-10-25