Author Topic: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?  (Read 89536 times)

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Offline Angelo222

Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #225 on: December 16, 2013, 12:37:16 AM »
crucially the statement did not say when they handed the e-fits over. Indeed the ST article says they were handed over when SY requested them.

The fact they handed them over is not the point. It's why they held them back and why they handed them over when they were asked.

Given the serious implications of the ST's article if it was untrue then a more firm and strongly worded denial would be issued and no doubt swift legal action would have been instigated and publicised to combat the inference of the article.

Bearing in mind SY know all the facts it's hard to deny something that's true with the yard watching.

Which is why they haven't of course.

Exactly right...Like rabbits caught in the main beam of a cars headlights if you get my meaning.  @)(++(*

I read an interesting comment on the new investigators board about Dave Edgar and his claim that Tannerman was really Tannerwoman.  I bet he wished he had kept his mouth shut now.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 12:42:27 AM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #226 on: December 16, 2013, 07:36:11 AM »
No that's from the Times not the Sunday Times (different journalists) and the source of the given years ago was one Clarence Mitchell! The claim it was passed to the Pj was then denied by the PJ.

The same article appears in both The Times and The Sunday Times

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #227 on: December 16, 2013, 08:25:17 AM »
Probably because the report that he produced 5 years ago contained e-fits that are now considered a breakthrough in the case. Probably because he's been bound and gagged for 5 years by a confidentiality agreement forced upon him by the McCanns lawyers that has done nothing but hinder the search for Madeleine. Probably because he's got a damn good reason to expose the McCanns selfishness in gagging him.

I'd say there's a few good reasons there. What's your take on it?

Plain fact is that the e-fit was not released before the Crimewatch programme because there needed to be the context of an official police enquiry to release it.

Now there is one and the efit has been released.

If the Portuguese officials had agreed to re-open the investigation sooner, the e-fit would have been released sooner.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #228 on: December 16, 2013, 08:29:56 AM »
Plain fact is that the e-fit was not released before the Crimewatch programme because there needed to be the context of an official police enquiry to release it.

Now there is one and the efit has been released.

If the Portuguese officials had agreed to re-open the investigation sooner, the e-fit would have been released sooner.

Context ???

Madeleiene was missing.

What bigger context do you need  ?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #229 on: December 16, 2013, 08:33:09 AM »
Context ???

Madeleiene was missing.

What bigger context do you need  ?

I knew it would be too complicated for you to understand, Stephen ...

Offline Albertini

Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #230 on: December 16, 2013, 08:36:45 AM »
Plain fact is that the e-fit was not released before the Crimewatch programme because there needed to be the context of an official police enquiry to release it.

Now there is one and the efit has been released.

If the Portuguese officials had agreed to re-open the investigation sooner, the e-fit would have been released sooner.

So why did there need to be "the context of an investigation" for this e-fit but not for all  ones released since the original investigation closed?

Whats the difference with this one and what's the point of asking for donations to a fund supposedly set up to help find your daughter if you are not going to use the information those funds provided to help find your daughter?

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #231 on: December 16, 2013, 08:42:09 AM »
So why did there need to be "the context of an investigation" for this e-fit but not for all  ones released since the original investigation closed?

Whats the difference with this one and what's the point of asking for donations to a fund supposedly set up to help find your daughter if you are not going to use the information those funds provided to help find your daughter?

You never did answer my question.  Given that the efits have long been in the possession of the police, would you have crucified the McCanns for releasing the e-fits, independently and apart from the police, of their own volition, of a man seen carrying a child in close proximity to apartment 5a, at just about the time Madeleine was abducted?

Offline Albertini

Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #232 on: December 16, 2013, 08:42:48 AM »
The same article appears in both The Times and The Sunday Times

Not in print it doesn't. The two articles, and the one you refer is to dated one day after the Sunday Times article on 28th October (i.e a Monday) was from the Times. 

Offline Albertini

Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #233 on: December 16, 2013, 08:44:32 AM »
You never did answer my question.  Given that the efits have long been in the possession of the police, would you have crucified the McCanns for releasing the e-fits, independently and apart from the police, of their own volition, of a man seen carrying a child in close proximity to apartment 5a, at just about the time Madeleine was abducted?

Your question is invalid. It has nothing to do with the unretracted Sunday Times article.

The McCann's had the e-fits BEFORE the police investigation was reopened and didn't release them. That's the point you don't seem  to want to acknowledge.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #234 on: December 16, 2013, 08:50:47 AM »
Your question is invalid. It has nothing to do with the unretracted Sunday Times article.

The McCann's had the e-fits BEFORE the police investigation was reopened and didn't release them. That's the point you don't seem  to want to acknowledge.

Apart from a police enquiry the McCanns had no business, authority or remit to release the efit especially given that the e-fit was in police hands -- both British and Portuguese.

The McCanns did all they legally or reasonably could by passing the efit onto police

And no my question is not irrelevant.

And yes, the original Sunday Times article has been retracted.

Online Wonderfulspam

Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #235 on: December 16, 2013, 08:55:14 AM »
More like the police than the police - new tactics in hunt for Madeleine

McCanns employ rhetoric and methodology of authorities as they unveil drawing of suspect, writes MARTYN McLAUGHLIN

Published 20/01/2008

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/more-like-the-police-than-the-police-new-tactics-in-hunt-for-madeleine-1-1074749

IT HAD all the features of an official police press conference: a solemn appeal for sightings, delivered with detective-speak phrases such as "eliminating suspects in the investigation".

However, the man standing behind the lectern was not a senior policeman but a PR consultant hired by a family determined to find answers even if it means going it alone.

Eight months on from the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, the private-investigation team sanctioned by her parents is increasingly employing the rhetoric and methodology of the police.

Yesterday, in what Kate and Gerry McCann hope will spark a breakthrough, the couple's official spokesman released, for the first time, an image of a suspect to the media and public.

The distribution of the artist's impression, created by Melissa Little, an FBI-accredited police artist hired by the McCann team, spoke volumes not only about the family's resolve, but their frustration with the official investigation.

The language of Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' public face, was unequivocal as he addressed the media from a lectern in a London hotel. "Who is he? Where is he? What, if any, is his connection to Madeleine's disappearance?" he said. "If he is innocent, we want him to come forward for his own sake so he can be ruled out. We believe this man could be linked to Madeleine's disappearance."

One former senior officer with Strathclyde Police suggested the family's approach was designed to keep public interest in the case buoyant, but said they may still have to rely on the resources of the police.

He said: "The language and the presentation that are being used imitate the police thanks to their PR people. They know that's a good way to catch the public's eye. It's an authoritative approach and it captures people's attention. I don't think there's any real policing expertise, though.

"I'd say it's highly unlikely they have anywhere near the resources of an active policing force. The parents don't know how to conduct an investigation and they're dependent on people they are hiring, who, in some cases, may not be best suited for the job. I think, as time goes on, it's unlikely they will find any new information on their own, outside of the chance someone will respond to this kind of public appeal."

In any case, it appears Mr Mitchell's tactics yesterday were borne largely out of dissatisfaction at the apparent impotency and silence of the Portuguese police, though he was careful not to cast aspersions: "We're not going to criticise the police in any form – they have got a difficult enough job. It seems drawings of this sort are not done as a matter of course in Portugal."

Nonetheless, the private investigation now appears to be regarded by the McCanns as their best hope of tracing their daughter. Having secured the image of the suspect, their team has now drawn up an action plan for how they want the investigation to proceed.

Firstly, they want a worldwide search, co-ordinated by a central phone number manned by their private-detective agency to identify and locate the man in the sketches. All information would be passed on to the Portuguese police.

Secondly, they want a full review of all police records and witness statements, including one taken from a 12-year-old girl who reported sightings of a strange man in the Portuguese resort in May last year.

Thirdly, Mr Mitchell called for complete cooperation between the Portuguese police, Interpol and the authorities in Spain, Morocco and Britain.

With tension between the McCanns and the Portuguese police still evident, the latter demand may not be straightforward. Worse still, they appear to be getting little return on the 50,000 a month being paid out to Metodo 3, the Barcelona-based private-detective agency.

'DISTURBING' MAN IS NEW SUSPECT

THE new suspect in the case of Madeleine McCann's disappearance was spotted by a holidaymaker three times walking around the complex where the four-year-old was last seen.

The sketch was based on an interview with Gail Cooper, a grandmother from Nottinghamshire, who originally gave a statement to police in May last year.

Mrs Cooper described seeing an olive-skinned man with collar-length scraggly hair acting suspiciously on a number of occasions.

On 20 April, Mrs Cooper said, she saw the man walking by himself in heavy rain on the deserted beach at Praia da Luz. Later the same afternoon, Mrs Cooper said she received a visit from the same man, whom she described as "disturbing".

Two days later, Mrs Cooper saw the same man hanging around a children's outing to the beach organised by the Mark Warner resort.


« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 09:10:50 AM by Wonderfulspam »
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Offline Albertini

Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #236 on: December 16, 2013, 08:57:35 AM »
Apart from a police enquiry the McCanns had no business, authority or remit to release the efit especially given that the e-fit was in police hands -- both British and Portuguese.

So why did they release, say, the Victoria Beckham likeness in 2009? Then there was no police investigation open but they still released it, why?

The McCanns did all they legally or reasonably could by passing the efit onto police

Only when asked for it though and not when they first had it in 2009. Indeed the article states the Yard had to get it form the authors NOT the McCann's.

And no my question is not irrelevant.

Yes it is.

And yes, the original Sunday Times article has been retracted.

Great please provide either a link online on the corrections page of the Sunday Times or point me to a print edition with a formally printed retraction.


ferryman

  • Guest
Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #237 on: December 16, 2013, 09:09:21 AM »
So why did they release, say, the Victoria Beckham likeness in 2009? Then there was no police investigation open but they still released it, why?

Only when asked for it though and not when they first had it in 2009. Indeed the article states the Yard had to get it form the authors NOT the McCann's.

Yes it is.

Great please provide either a link online on the corrections page of the Sunday Times or point me to a print edition with a formally printed retraction.

One way of wriggling out of difficult questions you can't answer is to dismiss them as 'irrelevant'.  But it's scarcely proper debating.

And like it or not, the original Times article has been pulled.

Offline Benice

Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #238 on: December 16, 2013, 09:35:16 AM »
So why did they release, say, the Victoria Beckham likeness in 2009? Then there was no police investigation open but they still released it, why?

Only when asked for it though and not when they first had it in 2009. Indeed the article states the Yard had to get it form the authors NOT the McCann's.

Yes it is.

Great please provide either a link online on the corrections page of the Sunday Times or point me to a print edition with a formally printed retraction.

If you are claiming it was not retracted and the contents are true then why are people ignoring this statement from it:-

Quote
The e-fits were in the possession of both Portuguese police and Scotland Yard for some years before this month's publication.
Unquote

Surely that clearly contradicts the claim that the McCanns suppressed the Efits.


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline Albertini

Re: Why did the McCanns reject Henri Exton's expertise ?
« Reply #239 on: December 16, 2013, 09:39:11 AM »
One way of wriggling out of difficult questions you can't answer is to dismiss them as 'irrelevant'.  But it's scarcely proper debating.

And like it or not, the original Times article has been pulled.

No not at all. Your questions relies on the premise that the McCann's handed over the e-fits. This was not stated in the Sunday Times article.

It was actually only stated by Clarence Mitchell in relation to a Telegraph article some 8 days prior to the Sunday Times one.

Interestingly Mitchell chose not to use the same quotes about giving the e-fits in  in response  to the Sunday Times article some 8 days later.

Why do you think that is?

In relation to the article being "pulled" please read the last few pages until you understand the difference between an article online not being in its original location and a formal retraction.