Author Topic: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!  (Read 162691 times)

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stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1380 on: May 18, 2015, 08:29:46 PM »
don't you know

Oh I know dave.

So how many officers were convicted of her 'torture' ?

and remind me dave of who paid for Correia.

The man who claimed  that Madeleine's body was at the bottom of a lake.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1381 on: May 18, 2015, 08:30:15 PM »
The ruling in the case of alleged attacks on Leonor Cipriano was read this afternoon in the Court of Faro.

 

It was taken as proven that Leonor Cipriano was beaten by elements of the Judicial police who could not be identified, and she didn't fall on the stairs, as was suggested. However, the court failed to ascertain the perpetrators of the aggressions.

Right, but an important detail omitted.

Leonor was unable to identify the assailants, as she had a bag over her head as she was tied to a chair.


stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1382 on: May 18, 2015, 08:31:36 PM »
The ruling in the case of alleged attacks on Leonor Cipriano was read this afternoon in the Court of Faro.

 

It was taken as proven that Leonor Cipriano was beaten by elements of the Judicial police who could not be identified, and she didn't fall on the stairs, as was suggested. However, the court failed to ascertain the perpetrators of the aggressions.

i.e. elements of the police ?

That would be thrown out of court in this country.

Offline John

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1383 on: May 19, 2015, 08:24:16 AM »
It is emphatically NOT a "$60 million question" John. 

For many reasons beating up a suspect, or use of torture to elicit a "confession" is always wrong.  And simply cannot be condoned.  I am surprised and revolted that you should think its fine. 

Especially given the name of this forum. 

I think a withdrawal of your comments or an explanation of your reasoning is in order.

I never said  it was fine but it happens all the same. Suspects fall down and walk into walls and doors all the time and anyone who thinks otherwise is rather naive.

As I already stated, in a fast moving pressurised situation, shit happens!



A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline John

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1384 on: May 19, 2015, 08:32:51 AM »
Lets be clear about the facts in this case. Leonor Cipriano freely confessed to the murder of her daughter long before she was beaten whilst on remand.

She told the PJ that she had accidentally killed the girl when she hit her head while being slapped.  She added that her brother Joćo who was in the house at the time took the girl outside and hid her.

This was repeated to the magistrate at her arraignment and that us why she was remanded in custody whilst Joćo got bail.

Her later uncoerced confession claiming that it was Joćo who took the girl away to sell her and that she had been killed when it all went wrong is another matter.

These are not the actions of an innocent mother!
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 08:36:28 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

ferryman

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1385 on: May 19, 2015, 10:16:16 AM »
Lets be clear about the facts in this case. Leonor Cipriano freely confessed to the murder of her daughter long before she was beaten whilst on remand.

She told the PJ that she had accidentally killed the girl when she hit her head while being slapped.  She added that her brother Joćo who was in the house at the time took the girl outside and hid her.

This was repeated to the magistrate at her arraignment and that us why she was remanded in custody whilst Joćo got bail.

Her later uncoerced confession claiming that it was Joćo who took the girl away to sell her and that she had been killed when it all went wrong is another matter.

These are not the actions of an innocent mother!

Freely confessed?

Scarcely.

Coercion pervaded the whole of the interview, and need not be physical.

Offline Wonderfulspam

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1386 on: May 19, 2015, 10:22:11 AM »
Freely confessed?

Scarcely.

Coercion pervaded the whole of the interview
, and need not be physical.

Were you present during the whole interview?

How do you know she was coerced?
"Ich wette, die Eltern haben es geschafft" (Mich)

Offline John

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1387 on: May 19, 2015, 11:09:06 AM »
Freely confessed?

Scarcely.

Coercion pervaded the whole of the interview, and need not be physical.

She had the opportunity to recant her confessions in front of the trial judge but was told by her lawyer not to testify in case it incriminated her further.

Her last confession where she decided to come clean and tell the truth thus implicating her brother Joćo was scribed by her lawyer, the police had no involvement in it. 

Do you believe her this time or is she a consummate liar?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 11:13:47 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1388 on: May 22, 2015, 10:33:16 AM »
She had the opportunity to recant her confessions in front of the trial judge but was told by her lawyer not to testify in case it incriminated her further.

Her last confession where she decided to come clean and tell the truth thus implicating her brother Joćo was scribed by her lawyer, the police had no involvement in it. 

Do you believe her this time or is she a consummate liar?

I doubt that she has a clue what happened to Joana. I'm not convinced that Joćo does, either.

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1389 on: June 13, 2015, 10:21:26 PM »
I doubt that she has a clue what happened to Joana. I'm not convinced that Joćo does, either.
Exactly Carana.  I am not convinced that either of them has a clue what happened to Joana


No evidence whatso ever.

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1390 on: June 13, 2015, 10:34:55 PM »
Lets be clear about the facts in this case. Leonor Cipriano freely confessed to the murder of her daughter long before she was beaten whilst on remand.

She told the PJ that she had accidentally killed the girl when she hit her head while being slapped.  She added that her brother Joćo who was in the house at the time took the girl outside and hid her.

This was repeated to the magistrate at her arraignment and that us why she was remanded in custody whilst Joćo got bail.

Her later uncoerced confession claiming that it was Joćo who took the girl away to sell her and that she had been killed when it all went wrong is another matter.

These are not the actions of an innocent mother!

Lets be clear about the facts in this case. Leonor Cipriano freely confessed to the murder of her daughter long before she was beaten whilst on remand.


So she had already freely confessed.  Why did they need to torture her?

Come on, John.  Pull the other one.

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1391 on: June 13, 2015, 10:56:15 PM »
Oh I know dave.

So how many officers were convicted of her 'torture' ?

and remind me dave of who paid for Correia.

The man who claimed  that Madeleine's body was at the bottom of a lake.

As I told John before, when I met Marcos Correia, I feel sure he told me that he worked Pro bono on the murder trial of Leanor Cipriano.

This was treated with derision.


However, I just came across this, which confirms what I said:

http://justice4mccannfam.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/joao-grade-lawyer-to-leonor-cipriano.html

Joao Grade Lawyer To Leonor Cipriano & The Goncalo Amaral Connection
Dr Joao Grade dos Santos
Former Lawyer To Leonor Cipriano


Leonor Cipriano was convicted with her brother Joao Cipriano, of murdering Leonor's daughter and then disposing her body in the most macabre, spine chilling of ways. Leonor's lawyer was Dr Joao Grade dos Santos. Dr Grade received no financial recompense for representing Leonor and her brother, although legal aid was granted in their case. In Portugal if you are granted legal aid and need a lawyer to be paid out of that grant, the court actually appoints a lawyer, the defendant cannot choose a lawyer of their choice. Dr Marcos Aragao Correia, Leonor's present lawyer, also receives no financial recompense, he is expected to represent Leonor Cipriano for nothing. Leonor cannot pay him, she is very poor and has no money.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_E-UoIsmKSrE/S0Izff79GTI/AAAAAAAAAjU/Kzq7D3p6sZ8/s400/Joao+Grade.jpg



http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_E-UoIsmKSrE/S0J7YJ3CcRI/AAAAAAAAAjc/xX3ZagZjejQ/s400/Leonor+1.jpg



Leonor Cipriano Arriving At Court For Last Year's Trial
So weak, she Had to Be Helped Along By Two Prison Guards
~~~~~~~~~~~~

With so many miscarriages of justices occurring in Portugal, with the same story of people not being adequately represented, this is probably the reason why!

Dr Grade seemed to be doing a reasonable job of representing Leonor and then all of a sudden that changed, here we will attempt to understand the reasons why that suddenly changed.

In 2005, Leonor Cipriano, along with her brother, Joao, were found guilty of murdering eight-year old Joana Cipriano after she was reported missing in September 2004.

They were found guilty by a court of three judges and four jurors, they received prison sentences of 20 and 19 years respectively, since their sentences have been reduced on appeal to 16 years each.

In April 2008 Joao Grade was arrested as he prepared to visit two prisoners in Beja prison, after drugs were detected in two bags he maintains he was carrying in for the two inmates. Amphetamines equivalent to approximately 45 doses street value and also a quantity of ecstasy tablets.
On March 26th 2008, one month before Joao Grade was found to be carrying drugs in his possession, Goncalo Amaral along with four of his lower ranking colleagues PJ inspectors Paulo Pereira Cristovao, Leonel Marques, Paulo Marques Bom and Antonio Cardoso, were committed to jury trial by Joaquim da Cruz, an investigating judge. In May 2009, Goncalo Amaral was found guilty of falso testimunho (perjury) and given an 18 month suspended prison sentence.

Strangely in a country where they beat you up for traffic violations, Dr Grade made a plea to the court that he did not know the drugs were in his possession and the court accepted his plea, what a pity they did not extend the same kind of understanding towards Leonor Cipriano, where on no evidence at all, and nowhere near proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, that woman was convicted of the most heinous of crimes.

Where is the justice?


Cont next post

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1392 on: June 13, 2015, 11:00:48 PM »
Cont:

Where is the justice?

Where was her "lawyer" Dr Joao Grade?

Why did he not bring to the court's attention the many inconsistencies in the "alleged confession" obtained under torture, aided and abetted by disgraced former detective Goncalo Amaral?

Dr Grade, also said he was confident that he would be able to clear his clients once their appeal was heard, as he believed their guilt had not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Since the guilty verdict was announced, a number of Portugal's leading lawyers and judges have spoken out against the decision. One judge at Leonor's trial insisted on going on record as stating that he thinks Leonor Cipriano is innocent.

After a complaint to the DA was made by the Director of the Prison of Odemira, Dr Ana Maria Calado. Then soon after, Dr Marinho Pinto, who was at the time a journalist and now President of the Bar, made a front page report about Leonor’s torture in the newspaper "Expresso", which forced the investigation to go deeper.

With all of this to go on and the indictment of Amaral
Dr Grade still could not piece together a robust defense for his client, Leonor Cipriano, it was almost as if he was trying to defend Leonor with his hands tied behind his back.

It was alleged by Dr Ana maria Calado, that having been questioned for 48 hours, Leonor confessed only as the result of a serious and vicious assault.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_E-UoIsmKSrE/S0J8bhmNSdI/AAAAAAAAAjk/Xz-veevplg8/s400/leonor_expresso.jpg


 

Leonor Cipriano's Injuries After She Had been viciously and Brutally Beaten During her Torture in Police Custody.
The Torture Has Since Been Proved In court


This is the woman that Dr Joao grade was supposed to be representing in court.

Is this the same Dr Joao Grade dos Santos, that now holds Goncalo Amaral, an officer he helped to convict in high esteem? So high, that he has now become the disgraced former PJ coordinators advocate and plans to train the convicted criminal to be a lawyer?
Is this the same Dr Joao Grade dos Santos, that has now pledged to testify in favour of Goncalo Amaral at his forthcoming trial, where he will stand trial once again accused of torture, this time the torture of Leandro Silva, Leonor Cipriano's partner?
Is this the same Dr Joao Grade dos Santos, who attended the 50th birthday party of Goncalo Amaral and who dined with another member of the five former PJ inspectors he helped send for trial, Pierre Paulo Cristovoa? The simple answer to those questions is yes!

How can Dr Grade in all honesty testify in favour of Amaral at his trial where he stands accused of torturing another member of the family, he represented and helped to convict by getting them indicted?

How did Dr Joao Grade dos Santos manage to get off of the charge of drug smuggling in a country where they arrest you, take you into a room for questioning and then beat you to within an inch of your life, for even minor misdemeanors?

Strange business this lawyer thing, very strange!

Could it be that Dr Joao Grade dos Santos is in fear of his life and that of the safety of his family?

Until 1974 Portugal was a dictatorship, this was the climate in which the PJ was created and their methods were notoriously brutal.
In a country where brutal treatment of suspects was routine. The mother of one expatriate British woman had been arrested in the late 1980's on suspicion of a petty crime and she was savagely beaten while in custody, she was found to have extensive and deep bruising all over her body. Of course, the police said they hadn't done anything, and they were never called to account.

Leonor Cipriano dispensed the services of Dr Grade and employed the services of Dr Marcos Aragao Correia. Dr Correia has subsequently ran a successful trial in getting Goncalo Amaral convicted and having Goncalo Amaral charged with the torture of Leonor's partner, Leandro Silva.

Against this backdrop in Portugal, perhaps we should not be too surprised that the Lawyer that just successfully had five ex Portuguese detectives accused and charged with various serious crimes, ranging with torture and perjury, in the March of 2008, was himself "apparently" caught in possession of drugs as he "apparently" tried to smuggle them into a prison, just one month later in April 2008. Coincidence? Even the birthday party of Goncalo Amaral could not pass without incident!
Leonor's present lawyer and the former "friend" of Amaral and her husband, were aggressed in the street as they stood watching Amaral's firework party! (This is the party that Dr Joao Grade dos Santos also attended as a guest of Amaral's)
Dr Aragao Correia was pulled through his open car window and threatened, while the husband of Amaral's former "friend" was punched repeatedly in the face by people that came from the party, allegedly sent by Goncalo Amaral. The police were called and the incident reported and the three who were attacked, were given incident report numbers, also the Portimao attorney general was informed.

Yet Dr Grade is to testify in favour of Goncalo Amaral?

Strange? You bet!



[With thanks to Rosiepops.]

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1393 on: June 24, 2015, 08:21:33 AM »
I very much doubt that Leonor or Joćo ever freely confessed.

- She was interrogated at length prior to that initial "confession". Exhaustion and the potential bluff tactic of getting her to confess to a lesser crime as opposed to murder, with the carrot that Leandro would be free to look after the remaining children, could be all that was needed.

- Leandro stated in court (during the murder trial) that she had told him she had been beaten and that she hadn't harmed her daughter.

- Joćo said he'd been frequently beaten and threatened with knives.

- Leandro also stated that he himself and his brother / friend and others had been beaten as well. It's not as if such tactics were unheard of: Virgolino Borges eventually won his case against Tavares de Almeida.

- No forensic evidence supports the prosecution's scenario.

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #1394 on: June 24, 2015, 08:28:45 AM »
A long, but IMO interesting, paper on false confessions (a snippet below):

Interrogation Process Errors and Investigator Bias

While police investigators estimate about 5% of the confessions they elicit are actually false confessions, scholars reviewing field studies estimate a false confession rate ranging from 42% to 76%. There is, of course, no way to reliably estimate the actual rate of false confessions, but it is thought higher than commonly believed (Davis & Leo, 2012).

There are three errors that are most prone to lead to a false confession (Adams, 2011).

    Misclassification error: The investigator enters the room believing the suspect is guilty (sometimes due to evidence or a “hunch”).

    Coercion error: The interrogator accuses the suspect of committing the crime and makes implied or direct threats to convince the suspect it is better to confess now to quickly end the stress of the interrogation (necessarily without regard to the long-term consequences of confession).

    Supplying key details: The interrogator knowingly or unknowingly provides the suspect with key non-public details of the crime which the suspect then incorporates into a false confession.

What researchers refer to as “investigator bias” is a key factor in false confessions. If the detainee is examined with an intent to simply gain information, they are less likely to confess, either truly or falsely. But if the investigator approaches the interrogation believing the detainee is guilty, the ensuing interrogation is more pressure-filled and coercive. This results in the innocent detainee (who is likely to waive their rights) being at increased risk for false confession due to the pressure of the interrogation process.

“The police probably put him between a rock and a hard place, like, ‘You are going to be convicted anyways. If you go to trial, even though you didn’t do it, you will be convicted. If you are convicted, you will get twenty years. If you tell us you did it, then we can get you eight years.’ So it is more like, ‘Well, I would rather leave for eight years than twenty’.”—Mock juror


http://www.thejuryexpert.com/2012/11/only-the-guilty-would-confess-to-crimes%E2%80%A8-understanding-the-mystery-of-false-confessions/
« Last Edit: June 24, 2015, 08:35:10 AM by Carana »