The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!

[sadie]

I cant see any proof that she returned home, Did I miss it ? Also can not understand all the stuff about 5 father 6 children. Why should such responsibility fall on a mother? In the UK such mothers would be given financial aid, but I don't know about portugal

exactly anna

Welcome BTW 

[sadie]

So what did the people of Figueira think of all this?

With all that stuff against Leonor and Joao they must have hated them.  Tough for a mother on top of losing her child

[John]

Try explaining why João Cipriano directed the police to look for her body in several different places if she had been abducted?  He wasn't being tortured at that time?

Still waiting on this evidence which will prove them innocent.

[Eleanor]

Try explaining why João Cipriano directed the police to look for her body in several different places if she had been abducted?  He wasn't being tortured at that time?

He was being threatened with torture.

[Matthew Wyse]

So what did the people of Figueira think of all this?

With all that stuff against Leonor and Joao they must have hated them.  Tough for a mother on top of losing her child

She gave them away like kittens.  What a sad excuse for a human being! 

[John]

He was being threatened with torture.

The very fact that he indicated several different places proves he had no intention of revealing the truth.  Same applies to Leonor, if she was being honest about Joana's disappearance her story would have remained consistent.  As it was she told so many lies even one of the Judges had to warn her about perjury.  And as we all know she was prosecuted for that too and had her sentence increased.

[Carana]

Incredibly the GNR officer who LC spoke to (near the church) told her to come to the police station the next morning if Joana had not turned up.   So it seems that officer didn't see any need to take immediate action.    In fact even when the report was filed on 13th - the PJ were still not notified at that time.    An incredibly lax approach from the beginning IMO.

 

The police didn't seem to have any standard protocol (nor modern resources) at the time.

I can understand that... but it doesn't explain the "conclusions" in the absence of verifiable evidence.

[Benice]

Try explaining why João Cipriano directed the police to look for her body in several different places if she had been abducted?  He wasn't being tortured at that time?

Still waiting on this evidence which will prove them innocent.

How can you prove you didn't do something when it's just a case of one person's word against another's

I could accuse my next door neighbour of lobbing a stone over the fence and hitting me on the head.  If she was in her garden at the time, and there are stones in her garden, and no witnesses - then apart from saying it wasn't her - how can she prove she didn't do it?     

This is surely why people are not required to prove innocence  -  and why innocence is presumed until guilt is proved.

[Eleanor]

How can you prove you didn't do something when it's just a case of one person's word against another's

I could accuse my next door neighbour of lobbing a stone over the fence and hitting me on the head.  If she was in her garden at the time, and there are stones in her garden, and no witnesses - then apart from saying it wasn't her - how can she prove she didn't do it?     

This is surely why people are not required to prove innocence  -  and why innocence is presumed until guilt is proved.

This really should be obvious by now.  No one is required to prove their innocence.  This is just getting silly.

[Benice]

The very fact that he indicated several different places proves he had no intention of revealing the truth.  Same applies to Leonor, if she was being honest about Joana's disappearance her story would have remained consistent.  As it was she told so many lies even one of the Judges had to warn her about perjury.  And as we all know she was prosecuted for that too and had her sentence increased.

Why - once they had confessed would they have any reason to withhold where they had hidden the body - or the murder weapons?  What could  they possibly have to gain by doing that once they had confessed ?    That makes no sense. 

Which trial are you talking about when the Judge warns LC about perjury?  She did not speak at her murder trial.
 

[Carana]

Try explaining why João Cipriano directed the police to look for her body in several different places if she had been abducted?  He wasn't being tortured at that time?

Still waiting on this evidence which will prove them innocent.

As a victim of miscarriage yourself, I would have thought that you would be at least interested in other potential miscarriages of justice and would have been interested in establishing what any reliable evidence there may have  been (in either direction).

[Aiofe]

When a child goes missing without explanation police in every country think the unthinkable. It's not just one cop in Portugal.

All possibilities are unthinkable. Which one do you mean?

[sadie]

What was she walking on Sadie?  Did she leave her shoes at home just for the hell of it??   

ps  I have censured you for promoting lies Sadie.

Could you point me to my lies please Angelo?  I see you have given me an extra 10%.  Why? 

[sadie]

If Leonor was such a bad mother, why weren't the people of Figueira remarking on it?  I see no signs of that.

All the photographs show a wondserful relationship between Joana and her mother and her siblings and Leandro

And Joana looks so well nourished and almost radiantly happy.  She is nicely dressed too



Why did the authorities put out all the disinformation about her?  Was it Amaral and Cristavao or was it some other party spreading the propaganda?

[sadie]

The very fact that he indicated several different places proves he had no intention of revealing the truth.  Same applies to Leonor, if she was being honest about Joana's disappearance her story would have remained consistent.  As it was she told so many lies even one of the Judges had to warn her about perjury.  And as we all know she was prosecuted for that too and had her sentence increased.

John

I wish you would open your mind to what has happened.

A man and a woman have been clanged in jail on NO EVIDENCE except of the TORTURED OUT type.  A llittl girl may well have been abducted.  In fact without this tortured out stuff the indicators are there that she was abducted.

You seem to not even be prepared to consider what torture does to this case.  That because of this torture and the fact that the officers in charge are a couple of R....., with one being a proven liar in the PT courts, the case is totally unsafe.  TOTALLY and UTTERLY UNSAFE.  Sorry to shout, but I am very upset by the injustices in this case.


Are you unconcerned about Joanas welfare, or the total Miscarriage of Justice against Leonor and Joao?   Are you only concerned that Amarals nose must be kept clean?