Author Topic: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!  (Read 423295 times)

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Offline Anna

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #915 on: November 16, 2013, 06:11:09 PM »
Good grief - that's a huge amount of witnesses in only three days!      Do you happen to know Carana - (or anyone else) , whether they did actually 'physically' testify in court or whether written testamonies were allowed by the court?

According to the official site (as link) They refused to have the confession read that was given at the time of the alleged beating, I believe
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #916 on: November 16, 2013, 06:13:14 PM »
According to the official site (as link) They refused to have the confession read that was given at the time of the alleged beating, I believe

Who refused?

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #917 on: November 16, 2013, 06:28:32 PM »
Good grief - that's a huge amount of witnesses in only three days!      Do you happen to know Carana - (or anyone else) , whether they did actually 'physically' testify in court or whether written testamonies were allowed by the court?

No idea. Every report seems to differ.

I can't imagine that 45 witnesses actually appeared in court in a trial that lasted 20 hours or so.

I can find some people who were apparently witnesses for the prosecution (some arguidos themselves, others being from those present at the "reconstruction"), but none for the defence, unless anyone can correct me on that.

Offline Anna

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #918 on: November 16, 2013, 06:30:58 PM »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #919 on: November 16, 2013, 06:37:26 PM »
The accused

I thought confessions were  not allowed in court.....so who asked them for them to refuse?

Offline Anna

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #920 on: November 16, 2013, 07:16:18 PM »
I thought confessions were  not allowed in court.....so who asked them for them to refuse?

 Sorry, I meant to say statements
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #921 on: November 16, 2013, 07:25:52 PM »
Sorry, I meant to say statements

So someone asked to for them to read their statements and they refused?

Offline Benice

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #922 on: November 16, 2013, 07:27:21 PM »
According to the official site (as link) They refused to have the confession read that was given at the time of the alleged beating, I believe

I think we are at cross purposes anna - I was referring to the 45 witnesses.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline John

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #923 on: November 16, 2013, 07:34:39 PM »
As there are so many stories going around I have decided to compile a list of facts relating to all court appearances.  Here for starters is some information you might like to see on the original trial.



The Trial of Leonor and João Cipriano.

- Joana disappeared on the night of 12 September 2004.

- The trial was heard by three judges chaired by Judge Alda Casimiro and included four jurors (three women and one man) chosen from the electoral roll in Portimão.

- Leonor and her brother, João Cipriano, uncle of the eight-year-old girl, were accused of murder, desecration of a corpse and concealment.

- Prosecuting attorney, José Pinheiro, originally asked for a sentence of 24 years for both defendants.

- Investigations conducted by the Judicial Police of Faro coordinated by Gonçalo Amaral did not reach any clear proof against Leonor and João Cipriano - just a theory, a story that the prosecutor José Pinheiro struggled to defend in court.

- The trial heard testimony from 45 witnesses: neighbours, relatives, PJ inspectors involved in the investigation, forensic experts.

- Neighbours and acquaintances of Leonor and brother João were called by the prosecution to assess the personality of the accused.

- But arguidos refused to testify and remained silent throughout the trial.

- The trial heard that marks of blood were found both inside and outside the house by someone of Joana's height. These traces of blood could not be forensically attributed to the girl - because they were contaminated by oil and bleach which the prosecution alleged had been used to clean the house after the crime.

- Trace of blood both animal and human were found in the family freezer. The prosecution claimed that the defendants hid the body there before disposing of it.

- Joana's stepfather, Leandro Silva, confirmed to the court that a saw normally kept at the Cipriano home had disappeared after the crime.

- On the last day of the trial the voice of João Cipriano was heard in court by virtue of a video recording made by the Judicial Police during investigations.  In brutal detail he confessed to killing Joana and of disposing of her body.  The defence objected claiming that João's words had no value since the defendants chose not to testify at trial. The judge overruled the objection.

- At the conclusion of the evidence the prosecutor appealed to the pair, "If you have any little humanity left, tell us where the body is?"

- Leonor and João Cipriano were convicted at Portimão Court on 11 November 2005 following a 20-hour trial spread over three days.

- Leonor was sentenced to 20 yrs and 4 months while João was sentenced to 19 yrs and 2 months.


« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 09:07:36 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Carana

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #924 on: November 17, 2013, 05:26:12 PM »
As there are so many stories going around I have decided to compile a list of facts relating to all court appearances.  Here for starters is some information you might like to see on the original trial.



The Trial of Leonor and João Cipriano.

- Joana disappeared on the night of 12 September 2004.

- The trial was heard by three judges chaired by Judge Alda Casimiro and included four jurors (three women and one man) chosen from the electoral roll in Portimão.

- Leonor and her brother, João Cipriano, uncle of the eight-year-old girl, were accused of murder, desecration of a corpse and concealment.

- Prosecuting attorney, José Pinheiro, originally asked for a sentence of 24 years for both defendants.

- Investigations conducted by the Judicial Police of Faro coordinated by Gonçalo Amaral did not reach any clear proof against Leonor and João Cipriano - just a theory, a story that the prosecutor José Pinheiro struggled to defend in court.

- The trial heard testimony from 45 witnesses: neighbours, relatives, PJ inspectors involved in the investigation, forensic experts.

- Neighbours and acquaintances of Leonor and brother João were called by the prosecution to assess the personality of the accused.

- But arguidos refused to testify and remained silent throughout the trial.

- The trial heard that marks of blood were found both inside and outside the house by someone of Joana's height. These traces of blood could not be forensically attributed to the girl - because they were contaminated by oil and bleach which the prosecution alleged had been used to clean the house after the crime.

- Trace of blood both animal and human were found in the family freezer. The prosecution claimed that the defendants hid the body there before disposing of it.

- Joana's stepfather, Leandro Silva, confirmed to the court that a saw normally kept at the Cipriano home had disappeared after the crime.

- On the last day of the trial the voice of João Cipriano was heard in court by virtue of a video recording made by the Judicial Police during investigations.  In brutal detail he confessed to killing Joana and of disposing of her body.  The defence objected claiming that João's words had no value since the defendants chose not to testify at trial. The judge overruled the objection.

- At the conclusion of the evidence the prosecutor appealed to the pair, "If you have any little humanity left, tell us where the body is?"

- Leonor and João Cipriano were convicted at Portimão Court on 11 November 2005 following a 20-hour trial spread over three days.

- Leonor was sentenced to 20 yrs and 4 months while João was sentenced to 19 yrs and 2 months.


John, some bits seem to be correct, others aren't. I'll try to work through it.


In the meantime, this doesn't seem to be a neutral way of phrasing the situation:

- But arguidos refused to testify and remained silent throughout the trial.

Why not just say that the defendants didn't take the stand during the trial?

Offline Anna

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #925 on: November 17, 2013, 06:39:13 PM »
John, some bits seem to be correct, others aren't. I'll try to work through it. In the meantime, this doesn't seem to be a neutral way of phrasing the situation:

- But arguidos refused to testify and remained silent throughout the trial.

Why not just say that the defendants didn't take the stand during the trial?


So what was the trial ruling in 2006? I get more and more confused with this case, maybe I should give up,
but I believe that Leonor is innocent of murder, but guilty of trying to sell her daughter to adoptive parents as her brother had told her. She deserves a punishment . But not this harsh! Was she a bit backward or simple I wonder


« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 06:41:50 PM by anna »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #926 on: November 17, 2013, 08:09:41 PM »
As there are so many stories going around I have decided to compile a list of facts relating to all court appearances.  Here for starters is some information you might like to see on the original trial.



The Trial of Leonor and João Cipriano.

- Joana disappeared on the night of 12 September 2004.

- The trial was heard by three judges chaired by Judge Alda Casimiro and included four jurors (three women and one man) chosen from the electoral roll in Portimão.

- Leonor and her brother, João Cipriano, uncle of the eight-year-old girl, were accused of murder, desecration of a corpse and concealment.

- Prosecuting attorney, José Pinheiro, originally asked for a sentence of 24 years for both defendants.

- Investigations conducted by the Judicial Police of Faro coordinated by Gonçalo Amaral did not reach any clear proof against Leonor and João Cipriano - just a theory, a story that the prosecutor José Pinheiro struggled to defend in court.

- The trial heard testimony from 45 witnesses: neighbours, relatives, PJ inspectors involved in the investigation, forensic experts.

- Neighbours and acquaintances of Leonor and brother João were called by the prosecution to assess the personality of the accused.

- But arguidos refused to testify and remained silent throughout the trial.

- The trial heard that marks of blood were found both inside and outside the house by someone of Joana's height. These traces of blood could not be forensically attributed to the girl - because they were contaminated by oil and bleach which the prosecution alleged had been used to clean the house after the crime.

- Trace of blood both animal and human were found in the family freezer. The prosecution claimed that the defendants hid the body there before disposing of it.

- Joana's stepfather, Leandro Silva, confirmed to the court that a saw normally kept at the Cipriano home had disappeared after the crime.

- On the last day of the trial the voice of João Cipriano was heard in court by virtue of a video recording made by the Judicial Police during investigations.  In brutal detail he confessed to killing Joana and of disposing of her body.  The defence objected claiming that João's words had no value since the defendants chose not to testify at trial. The judge overruled the objection.

- At the conclusion of the evidence the prosecutor appealed to the pair, "If you have any little humanity left, tell us where the body is?"

- Leonor and João Cipriano were convicted at Portimão Court on 11 November 2005 following a 20-hour trial spread over three days.

- Leonor was sentenced to 20 yrs and 4 months while João was sentenced to 19 yrs and 2 months.


 This is the most important fact

Offline sadie

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #927 on: November 17, 2013, 09:43:17 PM »
According to Joana Morias

Transcript/Translation of Leonor Cipriano's words:

Leonor Cipriano: It's very sad. My son misses his sister [Joana] very much, and

Q: Do you have any idea of where your daughter might be at the moment?
LC: I can imagine anything... I don't know if she's alive or if she isn't... if she is well... I don't know, I don't have an explanation for my daugher having... I don't know, I don't know.




Poor woman.  She doesn't look a monster on this, does she?  Gentle with, I presume, her daughter Laura.

At the time Joana vanished, Leonor had two younger children Laura and Ruben.  One was about three y.o. and the other about one y.o. give, or take, a few months

Offline Mr Gray

Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #928 on: November 17, 2013, 09:48:42 PM »
According to Joana Morias

Transcript/Translation of Leonor Cipriano's words:

Leonor Cipriano: It's very sad. My son misses his sister [Joana] very much, and

Q: Do you have any idea of where your daughter might be at the moment?
LC: I can imagine anything... I don't know if she's alive or if she isn't... if she is well... I don't know, I don't have an explanation for my daugher having... I don't know, I don't know.




Poor woman.  She doesn't look a monster on this, does she?  Gentle with, I presume, her daughter Laura.

At the time Joana vanished, Leonor had two younger children Laura and Ruben.  One was about three y.o. and the other about one y.o. give, or take, a few months

 earlier on a poster called Montclair said that in his 37 years living in Portugal he has never heard of a successful appeal...what a disgrace

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: The Leonor Cipriano case reviewed... AGAIN!
« Reply #929 on: November 17, 2013, 09:57:36 PM »
According to Joana Morias

Transcript/Translation of Leonor Cipriano's words:

Leonor Cipriano: It's very sad. My son misses his sister [Joana] very much, and

Q: Do you have any idea of where your daughter might be at the moment?
LC: I can imagine anything... I don't know if she's alive or if she isn't... if she is well... I don't know, I don't have an explanation for my daugher having... I don't know, I don't know.




Poor woman.  She doesn't look a monster on this, does she?  Gentle with, I presume, her daughter Laura.

At the time Joana vanished, Leonor had two younger children Laura and Ruben.  One was about three y.o. and the other about one y.o. give, or take, a few months

What do monsters look like sadie ?