Amaral's body in a fridge theory common to both Joana and Madeleine?

[Benita]

Does anyone think its strange how two little girls go missing ...and Amaral chose the same body in a fridge theory ...?

Reference to the Joana Capriano and Madeleine McCann cases.

[John]

Joana Cipriano was an eight-year-old Portuguese girl who disappeared from the village of Figueira, near Portimão, in the Algarve, on 12 September 2004. She was last seen buying provisions in a local grocers shop.  After a long and difficult investigation, headed by Chief-Inspector Gonçalo Amaral, Leonor Cipriano and her brother were accused of murdering the eight-year-old child.

The body of Joana Cipriano was never found, but samples of her blood were found in her mother's refrigerator.  Her mother justified those samples of blood admitting she had beaten Joana, for some reason, she was hurt and received a blooded nose.

Controversially, the police later extracted a confession from both her mother and her uncle. Her uncle confessed to having beaten her up after which she stood "quiet on the floor". He said he cut his niece's body in small pieces, put her in a fridge box, then put her inside an old car that was taken to Spain to be crushed and burned. When he was asked if he had sexually abused his niece he said in the presence of his lawyer "I did not harm her, I only killed her".

[John]

THE parents of Madeleine McCann have called for an end to the "hurtful" smear campaign after sensational new claims that her mother hid her corpse in a fridge after accidentally killing her.

Tomorrow is the 150th day since Madeleine disappeared. Kate and Gerry McCann will attend a church service near their home in Rothley, Leceistershire, but there will be no special event to generate publicity.

It was claimed yesterday that police in Portugal now believe that Kate McCann killed Madeleine while putting her to bed at their holiday apartment in Praia da Luz between 7pm and 8.30pm on May 3 and then hid her corpse in a fridge, with the help of friends.

The respected Diario de Noticias newspaper said officers believed that she accidentally killed Madeleine while her husband was playing tennis.

Her body then "passed through various locations" before going into the boot of the car hired by her parents 25 days after she disappeared, it reported.

As a result, detectives want to inspect fridges at the Ocean Club complex where the McCanns were staying with a group of seven British adults.

A source close to the McCanns said: "That is total rubbish. Have you seen the size of the fridges in those apartments? Of course they did not stuff her in a fridge. Kate was not in the apartment alone with Maddy.

"They had both been playing tennis, then they put her to bed together and were then down for dinner (with their friends) by 8.20pm."

The report is the latest of a series of allegations in the Portuguese media credited to anonymous detectives from the Policia Judiciaria. There are concerns that the McCanns have become victims of "black propaganda" being put out by police to explain why they were made official suspects.

Clarence Mitchell, the McCanns' spokesman, said: "We do not know who is putting all this out in Portugal but for the family's sake it's time for it to stop. Every one of these nonsensical allegations causes real pain and hurt for both Gerry and Kate, who cannot help but be aware of them. It makes a most awful situation far, far worse, because they know it's not true.

"I am very grateful for the media support; it is immeasurable in terms of what has been done to help find Madeleine, but these reports are increasing the pain for Kate and Gerry.

"We just hope that everyone can see these ridiculous rumours for what they are. It is very hard on the couple because they are not allowed to talk about the investigation and cannot defend themselves."

www.independent.ie/irish-news/mccanns-agony-at-body-in-fridge-slur-parents-dismiss-new-police-claim-in-maddy-mystery-as-hurtful-26321669.html

[Carana]

The blood trace in the fridge/freezer doesn't seem to have never been identified.


Therefore, we cannot conclude with certainty that the body, or all parts of the minor’s body were placed inside the deep freezer, but that at least they tried to place it in there, results not only from the reconstitution act, but also from the fact that on the 16th of October 2004, human blood samples were collected from the back interior of the freezer’s second drawer (cfr. Page 585), which was again confirmed by the report of the examination that was performed by the LPC [Scientific Police Lab] (pages 1780 and following, with special attention to pages 1786 (item B) and 1792). It is further recalled that witness CC3 explained that the blood traces that were collected from the inside of the drawer were located precisely on the back panel of the freezer’s second drawer. Now if one should consider the possibility that the human blood that was found could have resulted from the handling of the deep freezer by someone who had a cut to his or her hand, the fact that the human blood was found inside the back part of the drawer sets that possibility aside and points towards the conclusion that a human body part was placed there, or an attempt was made.

[Benice]

Sorry Benice, I didn't want to introduce yet another Capriano controversy.  I am editing my original post.

OK.  Fair enough.   I would still like to know the source if you have it please.

[John]

OK.  Fair enough.   I would still like to know the source if you have it please.

www.gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2007/07/truth-about-leonor-cipriano-mother-of.html?m=1

[Benice]

www.gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.co.uk/2007/07/truth-about-leonor-cipriano-mother-of.html?m=1

Thankyou.

[John]

I believe Benita's reason for creating this thread was to draw some sort of parallel between the case of Joana Capriano and the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.  In both cases the police alleged that the body or body parts were stored in a fridge.

For those readers who are not familiar with the cases, the detective in charge on both occasions was PJ Coordinator Dr Gonçalo Amaral.

[Carana]

Thanks for the link. Several points in that blog entry seem incorrect.


I'm still curious as to why an unidentified trace of blood "collected from the inside of the drawer were located precisely on the back panel of the freezer’s second drawer" is considered suspicious, in a fridge that was only "apprehended" a month after her disappearance.

...Witness DD further confirmed that the deep freezer that was used in the reconstitution was apprehended at the residence of arguida BB on the 15th of October 2004 (cfr. Pages 578 to 580 and photographs on page 1712 and following).

[Benice]

The blood trace in the fridge/freezer doesn't seem to have never been identified.


Therefore, we cannot conclude with certainty that the body, or all parts of the minor’s body were placed inside the deep freezer, but that at least they tried to place it in there, results not only from the reconstitution act, but also from the fact that on the 16th of October 2004, human blood samples were collected from the back interior of the freezer’s second drawer (cfr. Page 585), which was again confirmed by the report of the examination that was performed by the LPC [Scientific Police Lab] (pages 1780 and following, with special attention to pages 1786 (item B) and 1792). It is further recalled that witness CC3 explained that the blood traces that were collected from the inside of the drawer were located precisely on the back panel of the freezer’s second drawer. Now if one should consider the possibility that the human blood that was found could have resulted from the handling of the deep freezer by someone who had a cut to his or her hand, the fact that the human blood was found inside the back part of the drawer sets that possibility aside and points towards the conclusion that a human body part was placed there, or an attempt was made.[/b]

I don't understand the logic of that statement.

If a blood trace was obtained then surely a DNA test would have identified it?  If the sample was large enough to be identifed as blood - then there should have been no problem in matching it to the owner. 

IMO Amaral had to introduce a fridge into the McCann case to explain how a body could be kept for three weeks without decomposing and be in a fit state to ferry about in the boot of a car.  Maybe he was influenced by the fact that a previous court appeared to accept unsupported evidence regarding  blood in the fridge as proof of guilt -  and so it would be the same approach in another case involving a fridge.   Who knows - one can only speculate.
 

[VIXTE]

IMO, this is how the system worked for Amaral.
Build up the case against whoever he thought the suspect would be, i.e. build up the theory and then fit the surrounding info into that theory.
Then bring it to the court if the court would accept it.
This is a fast work to 'get rid of the unsolved case.
Then it is up to the public prosecutor to find the fact valuable or not.
In Madelines case his facts were rubbished by the public prosecutor.
What happened with Joanas case I don't know, I stopped following it at some time, the last I heard it was going to be passed to European Court of Justice.. Not sure if this happened or not.

[Carana]

The Ciprianos were a poor family. Was it a deep freeze or a fridge with a freezer compartment? How big was it?

[Benice]

The Ciprianos were a poor family. Was it a deep freeze or a fridge with a freezer compartment? How big was it?

Quote
 human blood samples were collected from the back interior of the freezer’s second drawer
unquote

That sounds like a small upright freezer to me - as opposed to a chest freezer.     I have one.  It looks like a normal standard fridge and has a front door opening with three drawers inside.  I have had a chest freezer -  and IIRC it has no drawers, just one large compartment and a smaller one.  There is no facility for drawers in a top opening chest freezer - as you couldn't open them.    A standard fridge usually has one freezer compartment.

It would be very interesting indeed to know which type of freezer LC owned.

     

[Benita]

I would imagine it was a standard size fridge ...and freezer compartment  ...it was said the fridge in 5a was broke and Gerry took it to tip ...not sure if it was made up myth or true  ....will have to look it up ....

I just find it strange that amaral uses the same theory for both missing girls both cut up and kept in a fridge ...with no proof ... >@@(*&)

[colombosstogey]

Jeez not Cipriano again lol....

Does it matter it is of little importance surely. One is completed case the perbs are in prison...

The other case well its still work in progress..

The fridge in 5A was hardly big enough to get a body in. Why put a body in a fridge anyway you just have to put the body in sand, say in a sealed box or suitcase...cover it with a cloth, shut the lid and leave it tight. The body will mummify and will not let out odour....

Simple really and is cheaper to run too as you dont need to keep the electricity on....