Author Topic: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case  (Read 26256 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cariad

  • Guest
Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #45 on: November 21, 2013, 10:58:11 AM »
Moita Flores – I understand, with some effort, but I understand that it’s a cultural trait that is different from ours, to leave children far away from the place where we are, and to enjoy ourselves until midnight, from 8.30, 9 p.m. until midnight. I find this hard to believe, for our Latin culture, in which the children are very directly controlled, I find this very difficult.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/11/cmtv-maddie-case-special-and-rua-segura.html

This really bothers me. It isn't normal for British people to leave their children for hours on end to go out and have fun! They must think we're all terrible parents!


CPN

  • Guest
Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2013, 11:04:07 AM »
Moita Flores – I understand, with some effort, but I understand that it’s a cultural trait that is different from ours, to leave children far away from the place where we are, and to enjoy ourselves until midnight, from 8.30, 9 p.m. until midnight. I find this hard to believe, for our Latin culture, in which the children are very directly controlled, I find this very difficult.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/11/cmtv-maddie-case-special-and-rua-segura.html

This really bothers me. It isn't normal for British people to leave their children for hours on end to go out and have fun! They must think we're all terrible parents!


Absolutely agreed.  And the constant "we've all done it", as well as being untrue, adds to this misconception and also bother me no end.  All we can say is "No we haven't" (and then you risk being called "a perfect parent")

Offline Lace

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #47 on: November 21, 2013, 12:12:31 PM »
Well my dear its totally irrelevant because I would never HAVE LEFT MY CHILDREN IN THE FIRST PLACE, so non of this would be relevant.

Ask your self.

Your child is left each night you find out from the child that she had been awake crying a lot the night before.

What would you do?

a. Stay in that night
b. Give the child a mild sedative to help her settle, then go out?

How can you possibly tell me that it was good PARENTING to leave children alone like this even more so after the child was awake the night before. ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Tell me this.

The child was known to have sleeping problems, this is FACT. When you take children away on holiday they get very excited and this can make it very hard to settle them in the evening.

How can 3 children on the night of the 3rd be so SOUND ASLEEP non of them woke up even with a flat full of people?

Tell me how is this possible.

It isnt rocket science that think that perhaps the children were sedated to enable them to settle better. There is actually NOTHING wrong in that as long as it isnt abused.

Oh as to the sexually attracted then they need to sue The Gaspars who made that statement it wasnt Amaral who made that statement but doctor FRIENDS OF THE MCCANNS...Why would they do that?

No I wouldnt sue because it wouldnt have happened anyway.

Why are you preaching to me about the McCann's leaving their children?

I have said I wouldn't have done that.

The fact is the McCann's were not arrested for the disappearance of Madeleine,  yet Amaral writes a book saying they are guilty.


Offline colombosstogey

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #48 on: November 21, 2013, 12:31:57 PM »
Why are you preaching to me about the McCann's leaving their children?

I have said I wouldn't have done that.

The fact is the McCann's were not arrested for the disappearance of Madeleine,  yet Amaral writes a book saying they are guilty.

I wasnt preaching at you I was being rhetorical.


Offline Carana

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #49 on: November 21, 2013, 12:56:47 PM »
Moita Flores – I understand, with some effort, but I understand that it’s a cultural trait that is different from ours, to leave children far away from the place where we are, and to enjoy ourselves until midnight, from 8.30, 9 p.m. until midnight. I find this hard to believe, for our Latin culture, in which the children are very directly controlled, I find this very difficult.

http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2013/11/cmtv-maddie-case-special-and-rua-segura.html

This really bothers me. It isn't normal for British people to leave their children for hours on end to go out and have fun! They must think we're all terrible parents!

Moita Flores seems to have forgotten about the checks, which makes it seem as if they were out for hours with no checks whatsoever. The Payne family was the only one that didn't make physical checks, but they seem to have felt confident in their baby monitor.

Offline Carana

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #50 on: November 21, 2013, 12:58:24 PM »
David payne of interest...and all that wine.....and the fact 2 waiters said they never saw GM

Voiceover – Another question that remains unanswered is the place where Gerry was at 10 p.m. Two Tapas Bar employees said that Gerry was not at the restaurant.

Which two bar employees stated that Gerry was NOT at the restaurant?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 01:00:48 PM by Carana »

Offline Carana

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #51 on: November 21, 2013, 01:17:59 PM »
Gonçalo Amaral – It makes all kind of sense to even bring him, and the family, it’s 3 or 4 people more, to Portugal, even to understand how long they took after leaving the Dolphins restaurant, how long they remained in Kelly’s bar, because there is no payment, the payment was not made with a card, we found out the exact time of the payment, not the exit from the restaurant, through the payment, because the payment was made with a bank card. At the bar, it was made in cash, so we don’t know. We don’t know how long they took having their drinks. We don’t know at what time the sighting takes place. It would have been around ten, a bit earlier, a bit later, at around that time, we don’t know exactly at what time it was.

Has he forgotten that several members of the Smith family had already gone back to PT for a reconstruction in May 2007?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

Offline Montclair

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #52 on: November 21, 2013, 01:44:26 PM »
Gonçalo Amaral – It makes all kind of sense to even bring him, and the family, it’s 3 or 4 people more, to Portugal, even to understand how long they took after leaving the Dolphins restaurant, how long they remained in Kelly’s bar, because there is no payment, the payment was not made with a card, we found out the exact time of the payment, not the exit from the restaurant, through the payment, because the payment was made with a bank card. At the bar, it was made in cash, so we don’t know. We don’t know how long they took having their drinks. We don’t know at what time the sighting takes place. It would have been around ten, a bit earlier, a bit later, at around that time, we don’t know exactly at what time it was.

Has he forgotten that several members of the Smith family had already gone back to PT for a reconstruction in May 2007?


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

No, Gonçalo has not forgotten something that never happened. The Smith family made a statement to the PJ but they did not do any reconstruction.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 03:56:17 PM by Montclair »

Offline Carana

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #53 on: November 21, 2013, 03:26:37 PM »
@ Montlcair Reply #67

Your quote marks seem to have got muddled. Your comment to me was:
ction in May 2007?

No, Gonçalo has not forgotten something that never happened. The Smith family made a statement to the PJ but they did not do any reconstruction.

Sorry, I assumed that the passage from Amaral's book indicated a reconstruction. "After their interview, they went back to the scene, accompanied by investigators. They indicate the precise place where they came across the man."

Isn't that a form of reconstruction? If not, why didn't he do one then?

A MAN WITH A CHILD IN HIS ARMS

May 3rd, after 9.27pm, Dolphin restaurant,
Vila da Luz

The Smiths, from Ireland, are spending their holiday in Praia da Luz. After having dinner at the restaurant, they go to Kelly's bar, 50 metres away. They leave there at around 9.55pm to go back to their apartment in Estrela da Luz, west of the Ocean Club, 300 metres further on. They don't stay late because the next morning one of them has to go back to Ireland. It's a big family, of four adults and five children: the father, aged 58, retired, and his wife; their 12 year-old daughter; their two grand-children aged 10 and 4 (their mother stayed in Ireland); their son accompanied by his wife - who is pregnant - and their two children aged 13 and 6.

They go in a northerly direction, the group spreading out; the children are never far away from the adults. There's nobody about. They climb a few steps to reach 25 de Abril street, cross it and turn left into 1 de Maio street, that runs along the west side of the Ocean Club. They haven't gone 30 metres when they come across a man walking up the middle of the road. He is carrying a child in his arms, head resting on his left shoulder. The Smiths don't see the face of the little girl, whose arms hang by her sides. She is dressed in pale-coloured, maybe pink, pyjamas; her feet are bare, she is white and she has blonde hair that covers her neck. The individual's appearance gives the impression that he is not a tourist. He is wearing cream-coloured or beige trousers, classic in style, perhaps linen or cotton. He is a white man, aged around 30 to 35, with no other distinguishing features: he is between 1.70m and 1.80m tall, is visibly in good physical condition; his brown hair is cut short, his face is tanned.


At this time, images of Robert Murat - considered to be the main suspect - begin to be circulated all over the world. After they return to Ireland, the Smiths continue to follow the case. They learn that, according to Jane Tanner's statements, Murat is definitely the man encountered on the night of the abduction. Mr Smith then gets in touch with the Irish police to relate what he saw on the night of May 3rd. He insists, categorically, that the man they came across with the little girl in his arms was not Robert Murat. He is sure of it because he knows him. With hindsight, he is utterly convinced that the little girl was definitely Madeleine. We secretly organise for the Smiths to come to Portugal. On May 26th, in the offices of the Department of Criminal Investigation in Portimão, we interview the father and his son. What they say seems credible. However, because of the dim street lighting, they say they would have a hard time formally recognising the man who was carrying the child. On the other hand, they describe very clearly how the man was holding the little girl and how he was walking. That scene is indelibly printed in their memory. After their interview, they went back to the scene, accompanied by investigators. They indicate the precise place where they came across the man.

Their coming to Portugal as well as their statements are kept secret. Within a few days, they go back to Ireland, but contact is maintained: they undertake to let us have any further details they remember. We finally have credible witness statements about that stranger who, on the night of May 3rd, was walking in the streets of Vila da Luz with a child in his arms.




Offline Carana

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #54 on: November 21, 2013, 03:38:17 PM »


Gonçalo Amaral – This family, which is not only one person, says that the person that they saw that night is a certain person. They say it is. Then they say it’s 80%. And then the e-fit – someone appears that looks like a certain person. While they never said it was a person that looked like Gerald McCann. The e-fit has that effect, the effect of devaluating the statement itself.



He forgets to mention that Martin's statement said 60-80% based on how Gerry carried Sean down from the plane, and that the only person who agreed with him was his wife (none of the rest of the party did).

I saw Gerard McCann (sic) going down the plane stairs carrying one of his children on 9th September 2007 BBC news at 10 PM, I have been shown the video clip by Sergeant Hogan which I recognise. A clip I have seen before on the Internet. In relation to the video clips of Gerard McCann and the person I saw on 3rd May 2007 when I saw the BBC news at 10 PM on 9th September 2007 something struck me that it could have been the same person. It was the way Gerard McCann turned his head down which was similar to what the individual did on 3rd May 2007 when we met him. It may have been the way he was carrying the child either. I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information. During that time I spoke to all my family members who were with me on the night of 3rd May 2007 about this and the only one who felt the same way as me was my wife. She had seen the video clip of Gerard McCann walking down the stairs of the plane earlier that day. We did not discuss this until some days later. This statement has been read over to me and is correct.



Offline Carana

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #55 on: November 21, 2013, 03:45:48 PM »
Aside from that, I thought he was only commenting on details up until when he left the case (2 October 2007).

The 60-80% statement relayed by fax by the Gardai is dated 19 Feb. 08.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/P16/16_VOLUME_XVIa_Page_4134.jpg


Offline pegasus

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2013, 03:50:50 PM »
In late May 2007, 3 members of the Irish family did do a reconstruction of the sighting, reconstruction meaning the PJ took the witnesses to the actual location and the 3 witnesses demonstrated the exact locations they saw the man.

Offline Carana

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2013, 03:54:24 PM »
Gonçalo Amaral – It makes all kind of sense to even bring him, and the family, it’s 3 or 4 people more, to Portugal, even to understand how long they took after leaving the Dolphins restaurant, how long they remained in Kelly’s bar, because there is no payment, the payment was not made with a card, we found out the exact time of the payment, not the exit from the restaurant, through the payment, because the payment was made with a bank card. At the bar, it was made in cash, so we don’t know. We don’t know how long they took having their drinks. We don’t know at what time the sighting takes place. It would have been around ten, a bit earlier, a bit later, at around that time, we don’t know exactly at what time it was.

Why didn't he check all that out back in May 07 when the Smiths had gone back to Portugal and had even showed inspectors where they'd seen this chap?

And why did no one check the bar receipts until 10 October?

12 Processos Vol XII Pages 3276 to 3280
12_VOLUME_XIIa_Page_3276
12_VOLUME_XIIa_Page_3277

External Inquiry

Date 10 ' 10 ' 2007

Place: Kelly's Bar, P da L

Inquiry carried out by Inspectors Rui Fernandes and Ricardo Paiva

Description and results of Inquiry

On this date at about 15.00 we went to Kelly's Bar, located in Rua da Calheta, in Praia da Luz. At the site we were received by an employee of the bar identified as L***** A**** M**** who had been on duty on the night of 3rd May 2007.

When questioned whether on the night in question she remembered the visit to the bar by witness Martin Smith and his family, she replied that she does not remember given the lapse of time between the events and because the bar is daily frequented by dozens of clients of different nationalities.

All the available documentation was requested concerning the expenses in the bar on the night of 3rd May 2007 as we were given the cash register from which photocopies were made referring to the period between 20.00 and 24.00, which is annexed to this report.

Signed

Ricardo Paiva

Annexes





Offline Montclair

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #58 on: November 21, 2013, 04:01:38 PM »
In late May 2007, 3 members of the Irish family did do a reconstruction of the sighting, reconstruction meaning the PJ took the witnesses to the actual location and the 3 witnesses demonstrated the exact locations they saw the man.

IMHO, that is not a reconstruction. A reconstruction would take place at the same time of the day as the event with all of the members of the family, etc.

Offline pathfinder73

Re: CMTV reconstitutes the Maddie case
« Reply #59 on: November 21, 2013, 04:07:05 PM »
9.39 13.75 euros - Group of 9 (4 adults) and closest time. They leave 20 minutes later. They can check with the Smiths on the estimate price.

9.46 8.00 euros

9.49 8.00 euros

9.50 5.00 euros

Regarding the 3rd of May, 2007, she went, with all her family, to eat at the Dolphin  restaurant, which is close to Kelly's Bar. When they left the restaurant, around 21H30, they headed toward Kelly's Bar. They stayed there for about 30 minutes.
— Around 22H00, they left Kelly's Bar. The group headed, on foot, for their apartment. (Aoife Smith)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 04:11:46 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.