Does Eddie alert to Pork/Pig/Pig Blood? Martin Grime's Statements.

[ferryman]

LOL I've been stuck waiting loads of times due to "security issues" (not necessarily due to dogs, but obviously some kind of alert). Once the all-clear had been given, I took the flight.

And I'm thrilled, relieved, and delighted that absolutely every time, your judgement has been vindicated.

Long may the happy trend continue ...

[Rogerandout]

Make that 100% as he's never alerted to a false positive.

"'False' positives are always a possibility; to date Eddie has not so indicated operationally or in training. In six years of operational deployment in over 200 criminal case searches the dog has never alerted to meat based and specifically pork foodstuffs designed for human consumption. Similarly the dog has never alerted to 'road kill', that is any other dead animal." (M. Grime)

That sentence does not say that Eddie has never reacted where there was no cadaver scent. Read it carefully.

Additionally:

could I ask what the alerts were in PdL. No cadaver residue was found. Does Grime count these as false positives? Why not? If they are not false positives, what are they?

They are cases where Eddie reacted and no cadaver was found. Now there are two possibilities- a cadaver was there and has gone or there was no cadaver there- we have no way of knowing so if we were being honest, these should be counted as false positives!

[ferryman]

All you have to do is to refer to the 'bible' which is the cornerstone of your arguments, Google !
https://touch.www.linkedin.com/?sessionid=239583579078656&as=false&rs=false#public-profile/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fpub%2Fian-mcilwraith%2F41%2F658%2F917

Do you need more citations or can you manage on your own ?

What does a contrived link have to do with anything?

[Carana]

There are EVRD handlers in the world other than Grime, and you have, have you not, viewed news reports where other EVRD dogs and handlers have been used in other cases?

If perhaps you don't like the term EVRD (as this may be a term Grime uses himself on his own dogs) it's a bit like using the term Hoover for a vacuum. It's a generic term

It's interesting though that this is the only area  of my post you reply to rather than addressing the central point contained within it.

Speaks volumes...

I see Ferryman's point on this. I have found VRD, but not EVRD. I have assumed that the Enhanced denotes that he had undergone some training on human cadavers at some point.

But, to use the Hoover analogy, not all domestic aspiration devices have the same USP at doing exactly the same job.

[ferryman]

.....  quote removed ....

I'm still waiting for you to produce that list of EVRD dog-handlers?

[Rogerandout]

There are EVRD handlers in the world other than Grime, and you have, have you not, viewed news reports where other EVRD dogs and handlers have been used in other cases?

If perhaps you don't like the term EVRD (as this may be a term Grime uses himself on his own dogs) it's a bit like using the term Hoover for a vacuum. It's a generic term

It's interesting though that this is the only area  of my post you reply to rather than addressing the central point contained within it.

Speaks volumes...

There are many VRD's around. They mainly find whole bodies buried or hidden. Grime added extra training and invented a new term- Enhanced VRD.

I would like to see a cite to any other source for the term EVRD.

[Rogerandout]

Oh for heaven's sake all the dogs and handlers used in cases where they have been deployed.

Why are you being so pedantic. How about the Casey Anthony case and the Zapata case to name but two.

Why don't you do a Google search on it after all you appear to be good at Google searching cadaver dogs.

EVRD only links to Grime on Google.

[Rogerandout]

All you have to do is to refer to the 'bible' which is the cornerstone of your arguments, Google !
https://touch.www.linkedin.com/?sessionid=239583579078656&as=false&rs=false#public-profile/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fpub%2Fian-mcilwraith%2F41%2F658%2F917

Do you need more citations or can you manage on your own ?

Read carefully and don't assume.

He does not say he is an EVRD dog handler, only that he has experience- Grime used to run courses with his EVRD and handed out pretty certificates!

[Rogerandout]

I see Ferryman's point on this. I have found VRD, but not EVRD. I have assumed that the Enhanced denotes that he had undergone some training on human cadavers at some point.

But, to use the Hoover analogy, not all domestic aspiration devices have the same USP at doing exactly the same job.

The 'enhanced' was not becasue of being trained on human remains (all US VRDs are). The 'enhanced' was the claim that Eddie would react locally not globally to cadaver odor. If you read the texts, VRDs are trained to indicate general areas where bodies may be, not specific places. There is a whole chapter on how cadaver scent may be carried by fluid flow underground and emerge downstream. VRDs were never intended to indicate trace cadaver odor as Grime has claimed that Eddie can.

[Rogerandout]

Why then does a serving police officer with Greater Manchester police state EVRD ?

He does not claim to be an EVRD handler- he claims to have experience with an EVRD- Eddie on one of Grime's courses!

[ferryman]

@ferryman - seeing as you are reading this thread would you care to elaborate on your "contrived link" quip ?

I didn't ask for examples of serving Manchester Police Officers ...

[Rogerandout]

You asked for a list of EVRD handlers, I gave you one example, you claimed it was a "contrived link" !
I asked you to elaborate on how the link was contrived, I'm still awaiting an answer please !

He does not act as an EVRD Dog Handler.

He Trained with Grime and Eddie and has experience of doing so, but no 'EVRD' dog of his own.

[Rogerandout]

What does he state on his linked in page under "Skills & expertise" ?

We can dance this tango 'til dawn but you'll still be in the wrong as you have already conceded with the rather infantile response "yawn", I suggest that that is the level of your intellect and debating skills when the argument is failing you !

He does have skills and expertise with an EVRD- Eddie on a course.

The argument started because it was said that Eddie was the only EVRD.

This man has only handled Eddie.

Eddie is the only EVRD (unless someone can find a cite for another).

[ferryman]

So Ian McIwraith lists handlers of dogs he has had dealings with:

Evrd dog handler

1Explosive detection

1Dog handler


And is himself the handler of two springer spaniels.

And? ...

[Luz]

I suggest the British authorities review all the convictions/cases where Eddie and Keela intervened, because according to some experts in here their work is worthless.