The crying incident as reported by Kate McCann.

[colombosstogey]

The worst thing for me out of all of it...

Was when MrsMcCann from her own lips told the world that her 3 year daughter had asked why she didnt come to them the night before when they were crying......what did she do?

SHE LEFT THEM AGAIN THAT NIGHT. As far as I am concerned there isnt must moral compass there. How could she?

I know children having 10 grandchildren and about 4 great grandchildren. IF a child was upset the night before you can bet your bottom dollar that same child would not be fooled the next night and would be difficult. 3 year old children are not stupid far from it.

How could ANYONE leave their children alone again KNOWING they had woken up prior and from what I read from the friends, it was known the children were not good sleepers.

[AnneGuedes]

The worst thing for me out of all of it...

Was when MrsMcCann from her own lips told the world that her 3 year daughter had asked why she didnt come to them the night before when they were crying......what did she do?

SHE LEFT THEM AGAIN THAT NIGHT. As far as I am concerned there isnt must moral compass there. How could she?

Does your knowledge about body language (this episode has been told more than once in front of TV cameras) tell you this is true ?
The more I think of it, the more I suspect this is a tree planted to hide the forest.

[pathfinder73]

It has taken it's toll greatly on Kate and if something happened earlier at the apartment it was from the time period 6.30-7pm. There's more to Kate sleeping in the other bed than just Gerry's snoring.

"During that period she saw the rest of the group, children and grownups; she was disappointed as nobody had told her that they were going to the beach and Madeleine surely would have loved to have gone with them." (KM)

[colombosstogey]

Does your knowledge about body language (this episode has been told more than once in front of TV cameras) tell you this is true ?
The more I think of it, the more I suspect this is a tree planted to hide the forest.

I agree. There is something more off with her saying it why did she? I actually thought it was a myth at first never happened as I could not see why she would say such a thing......but she would if she wanted us to know the child was there that morning.

No I could never understand why she would say it on the 3rd in the morning when Mrs Fenn herself the crying happened the night of the 1st.

So what happened on the 2nd then?

[pathfinder73]

Why was the Madeleine crying incident mentioned on the 3rd at the dinner? After the fact - I wonder if the same abductor was in the apartment and woke Madeleine on the night before she disappeared? 2 nights before doesn't quite have the same effect. I think Smithman did the tidying up and he would do anything to SAVE this person from coming to any harm.

[AnneGuedes]

but she would if she wanted us to know the child was there that morning.

This story wasn't for the public, but for the group. And the purpose was to justify the door-window left open.
They knew that those of the group who heard that story could speak of it in their statements. So it was clever to be the first to mention it.

[Anna]

This story wasn't for the public, but for the group. And the purpose was to justify the door-window left open.
They knew that those of the group who heard that story could speak of it in their statements. So it was clever to be the first to mention it.

I cannot understand Why, if they were worried about the crying episode and still had to go out, they didn't just go out and buy a baby listening device. or better still, hire a babysitter. The answer to that ,I guess we will never know.
  They may even have asked themselves the same questions, many times, since her mysterious disappearance and if that is the case, it is very sad indeed for them to have to live with the "What Ifs"
I just hope it is all resolved soon.

[pathfinder73]

The crying episode was told at the table after the fact IMO. This brought on the discussion of whether they should leave the patio door unlocked - why do these important insights come out into the open just before Madeleine is reported to be missing? Could Kate predict the future? Then the Jane Tanner sighting so everyone was completely convinced that it had to be abduction.

[AnneGuedes]

The crying episode was told at the table after the fact IMO. This brought on the discussion of whether they should leave the patio door unlocked - why do these important insights come out into the open just before Madeleine is reported to be missing? Could Kate predict the future? Then the Jane Tanner sighting so everyone was completely convinced that it had to be abduction.

Imo too. And it seems it was told more than once (see the rogs, Ms Tanner, Mrs Oldfield and Mrs Payne don't report it as if it was told once to all). Mrs Payne is the only one who relates it directly to the open door-window. As some in the group suggested that this practice was current, expressing doubts about it minutes before Madeleine is taken either is being Cassandra or paves the way for Madeleine's disappearance.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Why was the Madeleine crying incident mentioned on the 3rd at the dinner? After the fact - I wonder if the same abductor was in the apartment and woke Madeleine on the night before she disappeared? 2 nights before doesn't quite have the same effect. I think Smithman did the tidying up and he would do anything to SAVE this person from coming to any harm.

Am I missing something, pathfinder?

[pathfinder73]

Am I missing something, pathfinder?

Smithman wasn't present at 5A when Madeleine died. When he came in somebody was nursing her in tears behind the sofa.

[They've lied They were mistaken] in their first statements (4 May) about keeping to the daily routine i.e. going to the play area. That didn't happen for the first time on the 3rd, the day Madeleine disappeared but they both imply that it did in their first statements.

"After the 5pm dinner, they bathed the children, prepared them for the night and let them play for a while at a playground next to the tennis courts, still and always under parental supervision. At around 8pm, the children were put to bed until the following morning, when the described routine started all over again.

While the children are at the "Kid Club," the witness played tennis with her husband, went for walks, read and practised “Jogging”.

Yesterday, after the daily routine, Madeleine and the twins went into the bedroom and were put in their beds at around 7.30. The witness and her husband stayed in the apartment, relaxing, until 8.30pm. She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband. Just after 8.30pm, the witness and her husband, after checking on their children, joined the other adults of the group at the "Tapas" restaurant, about 50 metres away, where they had dinner." (KM)

After the 5 pm meal, the parents bathed them, got them ready for the night, and played for a little while in the play area next to the tennis courts, still under the parents' supervision. Towards 7.30/8 pm, the children were put to bed until the next morning, when the described routine described would start all over again.

While the children were at the "Kid Club," the deponent played tennis with his wife, went for walks, read and practised "jogging."

Yesterday, after the daily routine, MADELEINE and the twins were put to bed in their respective beds, and he stresses put to bed, at 7.30 pm. The deponent and his wife remained in the apartment to relax and drink a glass of wine until 8.30 pm. After checking the children, the deponent and his wife and the adults went to the "Tapas" restaurant, around 50 metres away, where they had dinner together. (GM)


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[Sherlock Holmes]

Smithman wasn't present at 5A when Madeleine died. When he came in somebody was nursing her in tears behind the sofa.

[They've lied They were mistaken] in their first statements (4 May) about keeping to the daily routine i.e. going to the play area. That didn't happen for the first time on the 3rd, the day Madeleine disappeared but they both imply that it did in their first statements.

"After the 5pm dinner, they bathed the children, prepared them for the night and let them play for a while at a playground next to the tennis courts, still and always under parental supervision. At around 8pm, the children were put to bed until the following morning, when the described routine started all over again.

While the children are at the "Kid Club," the witness played tennis with her husband, went for walks, read and practised “Jogging”.

Yesterday, after the daily routine, Madeleine and the twins went into the bedroom and were put in their beds at around 7.30. The witness and her husband stayed in the apartment, relaxing, until 8.30pm. She took a bath, did her make-up and drank a glass of New Zealand wine with her husband. Just after 8.30pm, the witness and her husband, after checking on their children, joined the other adults of the group at the "Tapas" restaurant, about 50 metres away, where they had dinner." (KM)

After the 5 pm meal, the parents bathed them, got them ready for the night, and played for a little while in the play area next to the tennis courts, still under the parents' supervision. Towards 7.30/8 pm, the children were put to bed until the next morning, when the described routine described would start all over again.

While the children were at the "Kid Club," the deponent played tennis with his wife, went for walks, read and practised "jogging."

Yesterday, after the daily routine, MADELEINE and the twins were put to bed in their respective beds, and he stresses put to bed, at 7.30 pm. The deponent and his wife remained in the apartment to relax and drink a glass of wine until 8.30 pm. After checking the children, the deponent and his wife and the adults went to the "Tapas" restaurant, around 50 metres away, where they had dinner together. (GM)


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Thanks for the long quote, pathfinder.

It's going to take more than a change in routine / discrepancy in the story to prove that, however.

[pathfinder73]

Thanks for the long quote, pathfinder.

It's going to take more than a change in routine / discrepancy in the story to prove that, however.

It will be hard to prove anything now (only one may know what actually happened to Madeleine) but they will corroborate the dogs evidence if they ID Smithman. They need to follow all other possible leads first and when they come to nothing they will be left with one.

[Sherlock Holmes]

It will be hard to prove anything now (only one may know what actually happened to Madeleine) but they will corroborate the dogs evidence if they ID Smithman. They need to follow all other possible leads first and when they come to nothing they will be left with one.

Elementary 

[j.rob]

I think Kate talked about it to the group and included it in her book to introduce the idea that an abductor entered the room on the evening before Madeleine was allegedly abducted. As Anne wrote - a tree to hide the wood. Kate uses this strategy a lot.

It may also have been a decoy with regards to Mrs Fenn having heard crying from the McCanns apartment for an hour and a quarter on 1st May. By making this comment, it might cast doubts on whether Mrs Fenn had got the wrong evening for the crying incident.

But, primarily, I think it was to introduce the idea that the abductor had entered the apartment the previous evening and had disturbed the children. Kate claims that at the time that Madeleine made this comment they were not unduly worried as Madeleine herself did not seem that upset about it the next day and she mentioned it 'and moved on'.

As with so much that Kate says and writes, this comes over as, at best disingenuous and, at worst, completely deceptive. By claiming that Madeleine 'moved on' after having mentioned the incident she is somehow shifting the responsibility from the parents onto Madeleine.

So, rather than questioning Madeleine further and then, crucially NOT LEAVING HER AND HER SIBLINGS ALONE AGAIN THE FOLLOWING EVENING, what does Kate do? She subtly implies that it was not that important as Madeleine chose 'to move on'.

Kate and Gerry play games like this the whole time. Every little trick in the book to plant decoys, remove themselves from having to take any responsibility, apportion blame on others and generally duck and dive. It's almost as though they are playing a game (remembers; everyone is playing a role, some quite big, according to Gerry.)

A responsible parent would feel guilty for not having been there when the children cried. Would feel especially guilty that an almost four year old was left to listen to her younger sibling cry. And then be forced to ask the parents the next day why they didn't come.

And what answer did the McCanns give when Madeleine asked why the did not come when one of the children was crying. What would have been the honest answer?

'We didn't come because we chose to leave you alone with your two year old siblings and we were too far away to hear you cry. We did check on you from time to time but obviously the crying happened between checks.'

But, not only did the McCanns not answer the question, they did NOTHING to reassure Madeleine that  this wouldn't happen again. On the contrary, they left the children unattended the following evening and didn't even bother to check on them themselves between approx 9pm and 10pm , allegedly getting a friend to listen outside the apartment at 9.30pm Which left plenty of periods of time when one or all of the children could have woken up and cried.

Kate has already, helpfully, made it clear that the parents were eating and drinking out of ear-shot of their children so they would not have heard them if they were crying. Which meant that, on the following evening, exactly the same thing could have happened.

But, in fact, what did happen? Rather than trusting their instincts and being responsible having listened to the concerns of their daughter, they were even less careful resulting in - allegedly - an abductor being able to enter the unlocked apartment and stealing Madeleine.

Don't you see - none of this ever had anything to do with Madeleine. It was all about the McCanns. Everything Kate and Gerry say and do is about THEM. Even when they appear to be showing concern for Madleleine, it is really only an attempt to justify their behaviour.

They are [... moderated ...] Gerry especially. Kate is co-dependent.