Author Topic: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits  (Read 90545 times)

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Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #270 on: December 22, 2013, 11:49:02 PM »
Unfortunately we don't know how, if ever, the Smith family reacted to those e-fits. They were 4 adults and 2 teens. Could it be 3 thought Mr Slim plausible and 3 Mr Flat ?

It's a mystery all right.

This 'evolutionary system' (silly name, isn't it?) is so-called after part of the process in the e-fits' composition where the witness is shown a very large numbers of pictures of faces, and narrows the collection down to those which bear closest resemblance to the suspect as they remember him (or her).

Then the final picture is composed by the e-fit 'artist' out of those chosen images.

The result is a more real looking picture which is understood to have a much more powerful impact on the viewer because it contains elements of the 'internal features of the face' (whatever they are exactly), in contrast to the so-called photo fit police used to do which was essentially a jigsaw piece composed of eyes, nose, mouth etc. giving rise normally to a very odd looking facial image indeed (Used to give me nightmares after watching Crimewatch as a child!).

I wonder, if the so-called evolutionary technique was the one used with the Smith family, how they did it exactly. Would the individual family members all have been shown scores of pictures from which to select those most similar to their view of the suspect? Or would they have been shown images collectively?

Perhaps they worked separately and this in part would explain the disparity?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 11:59:56 PM by Sherlock Holmes »

Offline faithlilly

Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #271 on: December 22, 2013, 11:50:03 PM »
We dont know, but Gerry is her rock.  No doubt about that.  She ran to him and it is only about 75 metres away.
World record time for 100 metres, women, is under 11 seconds  So at the same rate 150 metres could be run in under  17 seconds.  Kate is no slouch, and she had half that distance at about 75 metres, so lets assume that she ran the 75 metres in the time for 150 metres.

She yelled them before she got there, but we will ignore that

So under 17 seconds to her rock and all her friends ... and she knew they would hear her clearly if she went.

Most likely her gut reaction was to get Gerry and I doubt she lucidly thought this out liike I have suggested.  However, the facts stand that she probably ran it in 15 -17 seconds.


Not so much her rock but a pebble in her shoe, or so I hear !
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline sadie

Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #272 on: December 22, 2013, 11:51:50 PM »
Who is a proven liar ! How many different personas has it appeared as and how many professions has it claimed to be thus far ?
Btw, debunker is a high;y intelligent, multi degree man with expertise in a wide range of professions.  Almost certainly at the top.

We are very lucky to have had his input in this forum

Offline sadie

Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #273 on: December 22, 2013, 11:57:16 PM »
It's a mystery all right.

This 'evolutionary system' (silly name, isn't it?) is so-called after part of the process in the e-fits' composition where the witness is shown a very large numbers of pictures of faces, and narrows the collection down to those which bear closest resemblance to the suspect as they remember him (or her).

Then the final picture is composed by the e-fit 'artist' out of those chosen images.

The result is a more real looking picture which is understood to have a much more powerful impact on the viewer because it contains elements of the 'internal features of the face' (whatever they are exactly, in contrast to the so-called photo fit police used to do which was essentially a jigsaw piece composed of eyes, nose, mouth etc. giving rise normally to a very odd looking facial image indeed (Used to give me nightmares after watching Crimewatch as a child!).

I wonder, if the so-called evolutionary technique was the one used with the Smith family, how they did it exactly. Would the individual family members all have been shown scores of pictures from which to select those most similar to their view of the suspect? Or would they have been shown images collectively?

Perhaps they worked separately and this in part would explain the disparity?
Sherlock, do you think that means gives depth as well as height and width to the featyres.  In other words helps show the hollows and raised cheek bones etc ... and the actual bone structure more?


Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #275 on: December 23, 2013, 12:04:28 AM »
Sherlock, do you think that means gives depth as well as height and width to the featyres.  In other words helps show the hollows and raised cheek bones etc ... and the actual bone structure more?

Being an artist you probably would have a good idea about this, Sadie!

It looks like it could mean that, doesn't it?

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #276 on: December 23, 2013, 12:09:16 AM »
Sadie, I've got nothing against the McCann's. I don't know them: they could be nice people or they could be assholes. But they are stuck between a rock and a hard place from what I've read in the files and they're arrogant defensive actions against the dogs. Those dogs didn't lie (they only did their job and if they alerted at Murat's it would be a different story on here from the detractors) but people do.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline sadie

Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #277 on: December 23, 2013, 12:30:47 AM »
Sadie, I've got nothing against the McCann's. I don't know them: they could be nice people or they could be assholes. But they are stuck between a rock and a hard place from what I've read in the files and they're arrogant defensive actions against the dogs. Those dogs didn't lie (they only did their job and if they alerted at Murat's it would be a different story on here from the detractors) but people do.
I understand what you are saying Pathfinder, but I dont think you are totally understanding what the alerts meant.  Amaral didn't ... and that is why he got himself in such a mess.

Despite reading it over and over, I am still not sure I understand it completely .... but I understand enough to know that the alerts are totally unsafe, because they do not mean what we thought they meant.   Too late now for me to look things up ... and attempt to explain what I am trying to say. 

Anyway it is better that the experts explain than me.

Nigh night Pathfinder.

Nigh night Sherlock. 

Sleep well.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #278 on: December 23, 2013, 12:54:20 AM »
Do you object to Ferryman and Davel presenting facts/
@)(++(*

Offline pathfinder73

Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #279 on: December 23, 2013, 01:01:31 AM »
Goodnight Sadie.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #280 on: December 23, 2013, 01:03:52 AM »
Who is a proven liar ! How many different personas has it appeared as and how many professions has it claimed to be thus far ?
And the very scary Mary Bell avatar to intimidate posters !

AnneGuedes

  • Guest
Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #281 on: December 23, 2013, 01:10:22 AM »
It's a mystery all right.

This 'evolutionary system' (silly name, isn't it?) is so-called after part of the process in the e-fits' composition where the witness is shown a very large numbers of pictures of faces, and narrows the collection down to those which bear closest resemblance to the suspect as they remember him (or her).

Then the final picture is composed by the e-fit 'artist' out of those chosen images.

The result is a more real looking picture which is understood to have a much more powerful impact on the viewer because it contains elements of the 'internal features of the face' (whatever they are exactly), in contrast to the so-called photo fit police used to do which was essentially a jigsaw piece composed of eyes, nose, mouth etc. giving rise normally to a very odd looking facial image indeed (Used to give me nightmares after watching Crimewatch as a child!).

I wonder, if the so-called evolutionary technique was the one used with the Smith family, how they did it exactly. Would the individual family members all have been shown scores of pictures from which to select those most similar to their view of the suspect? Or would they have been shown images collectively?

Perhaps they worked separately and this in part would explain the disparity?
People might cooperate more efficiently if they knew in with conditions the e-fits were done and why there are two.
SY however might in fact know nothing about the making of.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #282 on: December 23, 2013, 01:15:41 AM »
Good night Sadie

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #283 on: December 23, 2013, 01:19:57 AM »
People might cooperate more efficiently if they knew in with conditions the e-fits were done and why there are two.
SY however might in fact know nothing about the making of.

Do you think SY don't know so much about them?

According to DCI Redwood, SY is taking the investigation 'back to zero, assuming nothing'.

Given that SY seem to be putting all their money on Smithman and have made showcasing the e-fits the centre of their inquiries (publicly at least), wouldn't they look into exactly how those images were made?

Wouldn't they want to be sure to get the best images possible?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2013, 04:09:18 AM by Sherlock Holmes »

Offline Benice

Re: The Find Madeleine website, Tannerman & the e-fits
« Reply #284 on: December 23, 2013, 01:59:38 AM »
Sadie, I've got nothing against the McCann's. I don't know them: they could be nice people or they could be assholes. But they are stuck between a rock and a hard place from what I've read in the files and they're arrogant defensive actions against the dogs. Those dogs didn't lie (they only did their job and if they alerted at Murat's it would be a different story on here from the detractors) but people do.

You say that the dogs didn't lie.    Do you also agree that Eddie alerted to blood from living people, and also to various body bits from living people even if the scent was many decades old, or came from underground, or had been innocently imported from elsewhere by various means?   

Without a body or other corroborating evidence there is absolutely no way the dog can prove to his handler -  who he alerted to, or whether the scent he alerted to was from a dead or living person, or how long the scent had been there or even how it got there.

It is for those reasons - (all given to us by Martin Grime) , that he repeatedly states that without the necessary corroborating evidence the alerts cannot be regarded as proof that his dog had alerted to a dead body. 

The same would apply wherever the dogs alerted - including Murat's property.

Anyone claiming that because the dogs alerted -  that means a dead body must have been present -  is also saying that Martin Grime does not know what he is talking about.




The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal