The 'Abductor' & the Sliding Door

[Sherlock Holmes]

No. The PJ isn't in charge of burglaries, unless there's some agression. The PSP (public security police) is.

What I mean is, they must have acquired the information about burglaries from a reliable source before deciding to mention them on the crimewatch programme (presumably). Presumably they got the info relatively recently from a Portuguese source.

The PJ surely must have had information on those burglaries eventually, in connection with the Madeleine investigation, even though they (the PJ) were not the first port of call for someone reporting them.

Or perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree in assuming the burglaries were ever reported to police. Perhaps the OC kept the details to themselves.

[Sherlock Holmes]

'Here you go mate, it's your turn on this spliff ,now pick that girl up off the bed & carry her out the door".

It doesn't beat your Christmas message, wonderfulspam....

[Sherlock Holmes]

Reasons for the window open and shutters raised have been gone over time and again ... and there are at least 7 possible reasons

Just to list a few

1)  As an escape route in emergency
2)  To take the investigators eye off the door as the entrance point.  Why?  Because this pointed to someone with access to OC keys being involved
3)  To give the false impression for the Golden period that Madeleine had climbed out of the window and wandered off..  The first few hours are the Golden ones
4)  To pass drugs and give instructions
5)  To give moral support to the lifter.
6)  For the lifter to watch for anyone coming from the car park direction


Just a thought, Sadie.

Wouldn't the first three reasons have been better served by opening the patio doors?

[sadie]

Reasons for the window open and shutters raised have been gone over time and again ... and there are at least 7 possible reasons

Just to list a few

1)  As an escape route in emergency
2)  To take the investigators eye off the door as the entrance point.  Why?  Because this pointed to someone with access to OC keys being involved
3)  To give the false impression for the Golden period that Madeleine had climbed out of the window and wandered off..  The first few hours are the Golden ones
4)  To pass drugs and give instructions
5)  To give moral support to the lifter.
6)  For the lifter to watch for anyone coming from the car park direction


Just a thought, Sadie.

Wouldn't the first three reasons have been better served by opening the patio doors?

Where I sat at the outside tapas restaurant I could see virtually all the patio door.  The tapas group sat in the next window,  a couple of tables along.  I didn't go there to look but I think they would have seen a good portion of the patio window too.

I am too tired to sort the photo out that I use to illustrate it but it seems they had a pretty good view

1)   is a precaution against someone entering via the patio doors ... an instant escape route
2)  The group might have seen the patio curtains fluttering (20mph gusts that night) and light spilling out as they fluttered.
3)   I stand entirely by that one.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Where I sat at the outside tapas restaurant I could see virtually all the patio door.  The tapas group sat in the next window,  a couple of tables along.  I didn't go there to look but I think they would have seen a good portion of the patio window too.

I am too tired to sort the photo out that I use to illustrate it but it seems they had a pretty good view

1)   is a precaution against someone entering via the patio doors ... an instant escape route
2)  The group might have seen the patio curtains fluttering (20mph gusts that night) and light spilling out as they fluttered.
3)   I stand entirely by that one.

I'm not suggesting that anyone would have dared to use that patio door as an entrance. Only that it could have been opened from the inside of the apartment to create the impression that it had been a point of entry, diverting attention away from the front door/ door key scenario - much as the window could have been used for that purpose. (point 2. in your list of reasons for having an open window).

It would also have provided a viable emergency escape route (point 1.) on the south side of the building in case of entry by the McCanns or anyone else via the front door.

An open patio door could also have been used to create the impression that Madeleine had wandered (point 3.), even though it would have been unlikely for her to have managed to open the heavy doors. (Why would she be climbing out of a window though? Manipulating an unfamiliar shutter system; climbing out and navigating an unknown drop to the ground?).

Why would someone open the window when the patio door would serve these purposes much better?

[stephen25000]

Where I sat at the outside tapas restaurant I could see virtually all the patio door.  The tapas group sat in the next window,  a couple of tables along.  I didn't go there to look but I think they would have seen a good portion of the patio window too.

I am too tired to sort the photo out that I use to illustrate it but it seems they had a pretty good view

1)   is a precaution against someone entering via the patio doors ... an instant escape route
2)  The group might have seen the patio curtains fluttering (20mph gusts that night) and light spilling out as they fluttered.
3)   I stand entirely by that one.

The mccanns were facing the opposite direction.

It was nighttime.

and they could see the patio door...........................

[Benice]

What I mean is, they must have acquired the information about burglaries from a reliable source before deciding to mention them on the crimewatch programme (presumably). Presumably they got the info relatively recently from a Portuguese source.

The PJ surely must have had information on those burglaries eventually, in connection with the Madeleine investigation, even though they (the PJ) were not the first port of call for someone reporting them.

Or perhaps I'm barking up the wrong tree in assuming the burglaries were ever reported to police. Perhaps the OC kept the details to themselves.

Quote from Amaral's book:-

The idea of a robbery gone wrong is not to be ruled out either. During the holidays, burglaries are not rare, and the police are not always informed, because hotels avoid spreading this kind of information.
Unquote

[AnneGuedes]

Quote from Amaral's book:-

The idea of a robbery gone wrong is not to be ruled out either. During the holidays, burglaries are not rare, and the police are not always informed, because hotels avoid spreading this kind of information.
Unquote

How does the police know this for sure if precisely it's not reported ?
Unreported cases unfortunately lead to rumours.
As all OC flats (a large part of them being rented to the OC) were inspected by the police, any attempt of breaking-in would have been noted.

[Benice]

How does the police know this for sure if precisely it's not reported ?
Unreported cases unfortunately lead to rumours.
As all OC flats (a large part of them being rented to the OC) were inspected by the police, any attempt of breaking-in would have been noted.

Don't ask me - ask Amaral - those are his words not mine. 

[AnneGuedes]

it could have been opened from the inside of the apartment to create the impression that it had been a point of entry, diverting attention away from the front door/ door key scenario - much as the window could have been used for that purpose. (point 2. in your list of reasons for having an open window).

Sometimes this case looks like a wild goose chase, it seems no real little girl was taken from her bed by a man only busy to avoid screaming and being caught red-handed, and getting away with a quiet child as fast as possible, complex tasks for just an unequipped man.

[AnneGuedes]

Don't ask me - ask Amaral - those are his words not mine.

I don't think I suggested those weren't his words.
The proportion of unreported (certainly minor ones) among burglaries is necessarily an evaluation. Insurance is the main reason why people report a burglary, they know that only 10/15% of burglars are identified.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Quote from Amaral's book:-

The idea of a robbery gone wrong is not to be ruled out either. During the holidays, burglaries are not rare, and the police are not always informed, because hotels avoid spreading this kind of information.
Unquote

Thanks for that, Benice.

It was mentioned by Eammon Holmes in his discussion with Paul Luckman about Smithman that burglaries were a frequent occurrence in the Algarve. I don't know what EH was basing his information on (he said he knew the Algarve well as a frequent visitor) but it seems that Amaral agrees with him. EH went on to say that the police did not take these burglaries seriously and rarely followed them up. What basis he has for saying that I don't know. Perhaps, as Dr A says, few are reported in the first place.

Resorts would want to keep burglaries under their hats and it is possible that the burglaries at the OC were amongst those unreported. One would think the owners of these properties would want police help, but who knows.

IF these particular burglaries were not reported at the time, could that suggest some possible inside involvement in crime at the OC? Hence the interest in where SY are getting their information.

[Victoria]

Thanks for that, Benice.

It was mentioned by Eammon Holmes in his discussion with Paul Luckman about Smithman that burglaries were a frequent occurrence in the Algarve. I don't know what EH was basing his information on (he said he knew the Algarve well as a frequent visitor) but it seems that Amaral agrees with him. EH went on to say that the police did not take these burglaries seriously and rarely followed them up. What basis he has for saying that I don't know. Perhaps, as Dr A says, few are reported in the first place.

Resorts would want to keep burglaries under their hats and it is possible that the burglaries at the OC were amongst those unreported. One would think the owners of these properties would want police help, but who knows.

IF these particular burglaries were not reported at the time, could that suggest some possible inside involvement in crime at the OC? Hence the interest in where SY are getting their information.

Unfortunately, when the victims are people who will only be in the country for one or two weeks, it's quite easy for both the resort and the police to simply ignore the problem. Which is what I believe EH was driving at. He sounded frankly disgusted with the local authorities in the Algarve. Having visited the region a few times myself, I know where he's coming from.

[AnneGuedes]

Thanks for that, Benice.

It was mentioned by Eammon Holmes in his discussion with Paul Luckman about Smithman that burglaries were a frequent occurrence in the Algarve. I don't know what EH was basing his information on (he said he knew the Algarve well as a frequent visitor) but it seems that Amaral agrees with him. EH went on to say that the police did not take these burglaries seriously and rarely followed them up. What basis he has for saying that I don't know. Perhaps, as Dr A says, few are reported in the first place.

Resorts would want to keep burglaries under their hats and it is possible that the burglaries at the OC were amongst those unreported. One would think the owners of these properties would want police help, but who knows.

IF these particular burglaries were not reported at the time, could that suggest some possible inside involvement in crime at the OC? Hence the interest in where SY are getting their information.

Properties, by Portuguese law and as elsewhere, must be insured against fire and water damages. No Insurance Cie however sells contracts limited to both risks, they sell multicontracts including burglary.
Therefore if a burglary occurs in a flat rented by the OC, the OC contacts the owner who will contact the Insurance Cie.
Of course they will hardly compensate the losses if one door was left open.
Of course the Insurance Cie will not react if the burglary wasn't reported to the police (PSP).

[Sherlock Holmes]

Unfortunately, when the victims are people who will only be in the country for one or two weeks, it's quite easy for both the resort and the police to simply ignore the problem. Which is what I believe EH was driving at. He sounded frankly disgusted with the local authorities in the Algarve. Having visited the region a few times myself, I know where he's coming from.

But how do we know police receive notifications in the first place, Victoria? If the resort want to keep things quiet, how do police know?