Did the burglaries at Ocean Club have some relevance to Madeleine?

[sadie]

Burglars are by nature cowards and tend to flee rather than give any witness the opportunity to identify them.  I find it very hard to believe that any burglar would have broken into apartment 5a with a view to ribbing it and left empty handed unless one chooses to believe he took Madeleine as a consolation prize?

Agreed, no ordinary burglar is likely to have done that, but it cant be excluded. 


All the men watching as noticed before hand tends to point to a carefully planned abduction, that nearly went wrong.

[Wonderfulspam]

Agreed, no ordinary burglar is likely to have done that, but it cant be excluded. 


All the men watching as noticed before hand tends to point to a carefully planned abduction, that nearly went wrong.

Indeed, there really were a great deal of men seen lurking suspiciously close to apartment 5a.

The real carefully planned abduction clinchers for me are 2 guys wearing shorts & the men heard talking with raised voices then hushed tones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyJwns_MTok&feature=player_embedded#t=1480

[pegasus]

... the men heard talking with raised voices then hushed tones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyJwns_MTok&feature=player_embedded#t=1480

Those two men were seen at about 11pm.About an hour after the alarm.
See the map at about 25:50 in the video you posted.
The location is outside the northwest corner of the biggest building in town the Luz Tur buiiding.
I already proposed the possible identifications of those two men, based on a statement in the files by one searcher, who having just emerged from searching inside Luz Tur, met another searcher and they had a brief discussion there, and you can even read part what was said. IMO this was a discussion between those two innocent searchers.

[sadie]

Those two men were seen at about 11pm.About an hour after the alarm.
See the map at about 25:50 in the video you posted.
The location is outside the northwest corner of the biggest building in town the Luz Tur buiiding.
I already proposed the possible identifications of those two men, based on a statement in the files by one searcher, who having just emerged from searching inside Luz Tur, met another searcher and they had a brief discussion there, and you can even read part what was said. IMO this was a discussion between those two innocent searchers.

Thank goodness for sanity

[pegasus]

Thank goodness for sanity

When two pushpins on a map are at the same place, and at about the same time, and both pins represent a brief discussion between two people, even an insane amateur like me can see they are probably the same event.

[pegasus]

Are you quoting the files released by Duarte Levy ?

Emphasising that I think those two men were innocent searchers, I am reading mainly rogatory ROB interview.

[sadie]

When two pushpins on a map are at the same place, and at about the same time, and both pins represent a brief discussion between two people, even an insane amateur like me can see they are probably the same event.

Dont knock yourself.  Others didn't connect !

[pegasus]

Dont knock yourself.  Others didn't connect !

Thanks, I just happened to know that the indoor shopping centre searched as described in rogatory, is at that location.

No-one however agrees with this simple connection - burglar thinks no-one is home, knocks door to confirm and gets no answer, then as he raises the shutter before he enters, the noise wakes an occupant and the burglar seeing to his shock that someone is home, flees.

[pegasus]

OK Peggy, so a burglar opened the shutters then fled.

Yes, and the exact simple reason is: he thought he had established no-one was home (only one table lamp on, no noise at window or door, no reply to precautionary knock at door) however as he proceeded to gain entry the shutter noise woke a sleeping occupant and he saw this just before climbing in, and shocked to find someone home, he fled. Entire paragraph IMO.

scaring Maddie in the process

Just as someone figured out the first moments of the missing plane mystery by the novel approach of putting himself in the boots of the pilot, I imagine I am the occupant asleep in that room. I get awoken by a loud noise of shutters and see a figure outside the opened window/shutter. Yes I would be out of there and into another room. Entire paragraph IMO.

she falls off the back of the sofa

Not sure there is enough evidence etc to be anywhere near definite about that. Looking at other child-home-alone-during-attempted-burglary cases the child generally hides, for example in a cupboard. If you think it was near the sofa I would think hiding behind more likely than falling off but I don't know. Entire paragraph IMO.

Who moves her body?

You are jumping far ahead. I prefer to go more slowly. What time period are you asking about? Entire paragraph IMO.

(Edited to add "IMO"s)

[sadie]

Yes, and the exact simple reason is: he thought he had established no-one was home (only one table lamp on, no noise at window or door, no reply to precautionary knock at door) however as he proceeded to gain entry the shutter noise woke a sleeping occupant and he saw this just before climbing in, and shocked to find someone home, he fled 


Just as someone figured out the first moments of the missing plane mystery by the novel approach of putting himself in the boots of the pilot, I imagine I am the occupant asleep in that room. I get awoken by a loud noise of shutters and see a figure outside the opened window/shutter. Yes I would be out of there and into another room.


Not sure there is enough evidence etc to be anywhere near definite about that. Looking at other child-home-alone-during-attempted-burglary cases the child generally hides, for example in a cupboard. If you think it was near the sofa I would think hiding behind more likely than falling off but I don't know.


You are jumping far ahead. I prefer to go more slowly. What time period are you asking about?

Pegasus, I think you should make it clear that what you are saying is just YOUR theory and quite likely not correct, ,

Dont you?

[pegasus]

Pegasus, I think you should make it clear that what you are saying is just YOUR theory and quite likely not correct, ,
Dont you?

Yes it is nothing but my amateur opinion.
As "quite likely not correct" is your opinion.
We both forgot to use the "IMO".
I have edited my post .....

[Brietta]

IMO the relevance of the burglaries illustrates how easily access could be gained to the apartments, and doesn’t presume that a burglar took Madeleine. 

As far as I know, with few exceptions these burglaries were carried out without being witnessed, even when a plasma TV was stolen.

In the 17 days before she disappeared, there were two incidents in the McCanns' block, one burglary and one attempted burglary. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25945924
Expat Pamela Fenn, 73, told them she disturbed a burglar at her apartment about three weeks before Maddie vanished. She is now to give a formal statement to Portuguese officers.  http://www.mccannfiles.com/id331.html   

It has also been noted that in most cases keys seem to have been used. 

There was no sign of forced entry. "I was convinced they had a key to get inside. I spoke to my neighbours, many of them expats, and I’d say around 90% of them had experienced the same thing… valuable items going missing out of their ­apartments.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/madeleine-mccann-suspects-cops-want-3095609

[John]

Ocean Club Resort had a duty of care towards their guests, something which was most definitely lacking.  They knew about the burglaries, the break-ins and the strangers wandering about the grounds during the day and night but they dud sweet f all about it.   That for me was irresponsible!

They put commercial considerations before the safety of their guests!

[sadie]

Yes it is nothing but my amateur opinion.
As "quite likely not correct" is your opinion.
We both forgot to use the "IMO".
I have edited my post .....

Cheers, Pegasus.  That is fine now.

I dont always say IMO, but I think I always use words like "! think" or "seemingly" or "it appears that" which make it clear that I am not certain. 

I hope I do anyhow !   I intend to.

[Cariad]

Ocean Club Resort had a duty of care towards their guests, something which was most definitely lacking.  They knew about the burglaries, the break-ins and the strangers wandering about the grounds during the day and night but they dud sweet f all about it.   That for me was irresponsible!

They put commercial considerations before the safety of their guests!

No matter how true that statement is, Madeleine was not the responsibility of the OC. She was the responsibility of her parents who are doctors and well aware of he dangers that can befall children left unsupervised but they did sweet f all about it. That for me was irresponsible.

They put there social lives before the safety of their children.