Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.

[Carana]

Pathetic twisting of events.

The door slid closed when the parents returned and not one single parent has ever taken ownership if this situation where they returned to a crying child therefore it has clearly been surpressed. Now who fo we know that likes to keep things surpressed?  >@@(*&)

Kind of you to accuse me of a "pathetic twisting of events".

Moving on, which neighbours were actually asked about incidents of children crying that night?

ETA: No one seems to have asked Mrs Fenn if she'd also heard the gates. Wouldn't that be a logical question to ask?

[Redblossom]

But there you are assuming that the floor below means the apartment below.

I have lived in a 20+ year-old building before and I know for a fact that sounds do not always come from where you think they do. The acoustics can be quite misleading.

You were manipulating facts..and trying to cloud issues....welcome to my ignore list Carana


 

[Benice]

No, not really, if you read Tanners interview  they locked the front and back every single night....so its just assumption and speculation by you, not possiblities or facts

I'm not claiming anything as 'factual.   But common sense dictates that as Russell stayed in that night  there was no reason to lock the doors  - and so :-

(a) JT may have left for the Tapas - via the patio doors.
(6) Returned with Russell's dinner - via the patio doors
(c) and made her final journey back to the apartment via those doors?

Would she carry a meal all that long way round - when she had no need to?

I'm not saying that is definitely what happened, but it seems the obvious thing to do IMO.  In my experience people will ALWAYS take a shorter route over a longer one if they have the choice.

[Carana]

You were manipulating facts...welcome to my ignore list Carana


 

No problems.

Can you show me where I have "manipulated" facts? All I was doing was presenting what I find to be a plausible alternative to the assumption that people are necessarily lying. I don't see the issue. I even said that there is no evidence that my alternative is true, just that I find it plausible. Even more so in the absence of anything more than one elderly lady's statement, taken 3 months after the event, with no corroboration.

[Redblossom]

I'm not claiming anything as 'factual.   But common sense dictates that as Russell stayed in that night  there was no reason to lock the doors  - and so :-

assumptions again

Eta

And why? To somehow prove it wasnt Madeleine crying that night? That Mrs Fenn heard a patio door three flats down and not directly below? OK then, thought she was half deaf by some peoples account anyway!

[Benice]

Pathetic twisting of events.

The door slid closed when the parents returned and not one single parent has ever taken ownership if this situation where they returned to a crying child therefore it has clearly been surpressed. Now who fo we know that likes to keep things surpressed?  >@@(*&)

But neither the group nor the PJ knew anything about what Mrs. Fenn heard until weeks after 1st May because she wasn't interviewed until then.      How could they 'suppress' answers to questions which they were never asked - and claims made which they didn't know anything about.?

Did the PJ ever ask the McCanns or the group about Mrs. Fenns claims?  If so - where are the statements?  I've never seen any.



 

 

[pathfinder73]

[So it could have been JT's patio door that Mrs Fenn heard opening - and it could have been her little girl who stopped crying.]

Jane was taking Russell's dinner to him from 8.30 to 10pm not at 11.45. Fenn said the patio door below her which she could hear opening i.e. 5A. Madeleine was heard shouting Daddy, Daddy! Russell was with his children all night.

[AnneGuedes]

I know - I was responding to a post by Pegasus that there may have been a translation error and it could have been the 2nd May not the 1st that Mrs Fenn heard a child crying.

A translation error ? Does Wednesday sound like Tuesday ?
The PJ needed an accurate date,  Mrs Fenn was sure that she wasn't home on Wednesday evening. She would have remembered hearing cries when she came back home (before 11).
Mrs Fenn's statement is indeed an important point, as the AG report shows it.
The AG's suggestion that they (globally) weren't checking on their children as often as they pretended is mainly based on Mrs Fenn's statement, confirmed by the fact that none of the waiters observed the pretended regularity.
The AG doesn't allude to eventual auditive hallucinations and date confusing (no hearing test was requested). Mrs Fenn mentioned the name of the PDL friend she called on the phone. Why ? Just for the sake of it ?

Some violate graves, attempting to degrade a dead person's sayings is worse (imo).

[AnneGuedes]

Can either Carana or Benice please show me where O'Brien/Tanner, Oldfield or the McCanns (all 3 residing on the floor below) have taken ownership of their child crying upon their return on 1st May 2007? If you cannot do this then one of those 3 sets of parents have deceived the PJ or Mrs Fenn is lying. It is simple logic that you have not yet addressed.

Russell, from his flat, couldn't possibly hear crying in the McCann flat (eventually in the Oldfield one, because the main door was next to his).
But when the TP8 came back, either the TP6 heard but kept silent, either they didn't, because the McCanns silenced the child by sliding the door-window before the others were in the car park.

[AnneGuedes]

Did the PJ ever ask the McCanns or the group about Mrs. Fenns claims?  If so - where are the statements?  I've never seen any.

But it's there, in the files.
When asked about the fact her daughter had been crying on the night of the Tuesday for one hour and 15 minutes, between 10:30 and 11:45, she says it is not true.
 Vol  X, pp. 2539-2551

It is not true that Madeleine had been crying that night for an hour and 15 minutes, because she was not alone all that time.
Vol IV pp. 891-903

[AnneGuedes]

I'm not claiming anything as 'factual.   But common sense dictates that as Russell stayed in that night  there was no reason to lock the doors  - and so :-

(a) JT may have left for the Tapas - via the patio doors.
(6) Returned with Russell's dinner - via the patio doors
(c) and made her final journey back to the apartment via those doors?

Would she carry a meal all that long way round - when she had no need to?

I'm not saying that is definitely what happened, but it seems the obvious thing to do IMO.  In my experience people will ALWAYS take a shorter route over a longer one if they have the choice.

If you don't slide the door-windows very carefully, they automatically lock, leaving you outside..

[pegasus]

I suggested the possibility (which may be wrong) that it might have been Wed (rather than Tue which it says in the files) when Mrs F heard extended crying.
I have no evidence to back that up, it is simply that time that noise ended would then match other statements.
If it was Wed, then the time when an adult returns home would match in: group statements, barman statement, Mrs F statement.

[pathfinder73]

According to the cleaner one of the cots was in the parents bedroom on Wed. That isn't in their statements either.

[Redblossom]

I suggested the possibility (which may be wrong) that it might have been Wed (rather than Tue which it says in the files) when Mrs F heard extended crying.
I have no evidence to back that up, it is simply that time that noise ended would then match other statements.
If it was Wed, then the time when an adult returns home would match in: group statements, barman statement, Mrs F statement.

Only she was out wednesday wasnt she?

Her statement says she didnt have anything to report for the 2nd as she was home at night

 >@@(*&)

Translation error? Missed out a "not"?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/PAMELA_FENN.htm

maybe someone who reads portuguese can help here?

[pegasus]

An example of a date stated correctly in a police interview being transcribed wrongly.
Mrs F's niece in her first statement (BTW this is not in the files) told police she saw a man going out a gate on Thursday 3rd May.
It got transcribed wrongly as Sunday 29th April.
That transcription mistake came to light only in a later police interview (which is in the files) of the same witness.
So it can happen.