Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.

[jassi]

So no identifiable prints from persons  who said they used the doors that evening.

Is it normal for fingerprints to be so unreliable ?

[Brietta]

So no identifiable prints from persons  who said they used the doors that evening.

Is it normal for fingerprints to be so unreliable ?

It can depend very much on who is taking them.  Kate and Gerry had to have theirs taken again and I believe the officers dusting for prints in the first instance didn't manage to make a very good job of it and it had to be done again.

In those circumstances I think vital evidence may very well have been destroyed.

[kmc]

Reference the Fenn statement - what if Jenny Murat muddled the date she saw the lady in purple/plum?  She made no mention of it in her PJ statement, even though she included the timing of her trip to Batista to buy bread on 3rd May.  Then considering the number of years it took to finally talk to the press and her advancing age, I wonder if it is possible that she may have seen the suspicious woman on Tuesday, 1st May.  In which case, the Jorge Alberto Bandara Rocha statement and Mrs Fenn’s statement about crying may connect up.  Anyhow, even if this theory is wholly incorrect the Jorge Arturo statement is worth looking at i.e. mention  of overenthusiastic photographing, taking the time to book in low season yet gobbling down dinner, the women’s clothing description and the question of the name of a fish in German, conveniently answered by a nearby German couple.  (Of course there is also Jeremy Wilkins lady in purple on 3rd May, but as far as I can see, only mention was made of lady in purple whom he believed to be Jane Tanner once he got back to the UK.  As a result, perhaps he did see Jane heading for dinner,  but because she wore so much purple in the media his brain/memory associated her with the colour).

[Holly Goodhead]

Why someone would slip in via the patio doors and then handle the shutters I can't imagine.

However. The PJ recovered 5 of Kate McCann's fingerprints from the inside of the children's bedroom window. Three were from the middle finger of her left hand, the other two being from her forefinger. Then on 4th they found;

Side of the patio door: One adequate print recovered but not matched to known persons.

- Outside of one patio door: Eight inadequate prints were recovered.- Outside of [the other] patio door: One inadequate print was recovered.- Outside of the external blinds to the children's bedroom: three inadequate prints were recovered.

So the only adequate print was from the patio door, and that was identified as being from one of the GNR officers.
https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

Seems obvious to me.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

IP Wiesbaden informed us that two of the samples cannot be used for comparison, the other was possible for comparison, nothing being found in our files. However IP Wiesbaden states that this sample could have been left by a woman or a youth, but not by a small girl.

I researched fingerprints extensively on the Bamber case.  Myster will confirm (he has seen the email communication) I was assisted by arguably the world's expert on fingerprints, a physicist who developed a pioneering method to recover latent fingerprints from small cylindrical objects.   

[Holly Goodhead]

Reference the Fenn statement - what if Jenny Murat muddled the date she saw the lady in purple/plum?  She made no mention of it in her PJ statement, even though she included the timing of her trip to Batista to buy bread on 3rd May.  Then considering the number of years it took to finally talk to the press and her advancing age, I wonder if it is possible that she may have seen the suspicious woman on Tuesday, 1st May.  In which case, the Jorge Alberto Bandara Rocha statement and Mrs Fenn’s statement about crying may connect up.  Anyhow, even if this theory is wholly incorrect the Jorge Arturo statement is worth looking at i.e. mention  of overenthusiastic photographing, taking the time to book in low season yet gobbling down dinner, the women’s clothing description and the question of the name of a fish in German, conveniently answered by a nearby German couple.  (Of course there is also Jeremy Wilkins lady in purple on 3rd May, but as far as I can see, only mention was made of lady in purple whom he believed to be Jane Tanner once he got back to the UK.  As a result, perhaps he did see Jane heading for dinner,  but because she wore so much purple in the media his brain/memory associated her with the colour).

kmc, you don't seem to have much faith in the recollections of the elderly? 

I thought on 3rd May JT borrowed ROB's blue jumper as she was feeling chilly? 

[G-Unit]

Seems obvious to me.

https://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/FINGERPRINTS.htm

IP Wiesbaden informed us that two of the samples cannot be used for comparison, the other was possible for comparison, nothing being found in our files. However IP Wiesbaden states that this sample could have been left by a woman or a youth, but not by a small girl.

I researched fingerprints extensively on the Bamber case.  Myster will confirm (he has seen the email communication) I was assisted by arguably the world's expert on fingerprints, a physicist who developed a pioneering method to recover latent fingerprints from small cylindrical objects.   

Why would someone touch the shutters? I assume they'd use the strap to open the from the inside.

That quote is in the files, but isn't connected to any fingerprints found on the shutters imo. It seems to be an opinion from Interpol in Wiesbaden.

[Holly Goodhead]

Why would someone touch the shutters? I assume they'd use the strap to open the from the inside.

That quote is in the files, but isn't connected to any fingerprints found on the shutters imo. It seems to be an opinion from Interpol in Wiesbaden.

Where in your opinion was the unidentified fingerprint collected from?

[G-Unit]

Where in your opinion was the unidentified fingerprint collected from?

A total of 13 prints were found, 12 of which were described as 'inadequate'. The only 'adequate' one was taken from the side of the patio door. On 18th May the one finger print 'with sufficient value for identification' was identified as belonging to Nelson da Costa, GNR. That would be the one from the side of the patio door then imo.

[kmc]

kmc, you don't seem to have much faith in the recollections of the elderly? 

I thought on 3rd May JT borrowed ROB's blue jumper as she was feeling chilly?

JT did borrow Rob's blue fleece/jumper - we just don't have confirmation of exactly when she borrowed it -  but she does mention wearing it during during her 21.10 check.  She also makes no mention of personally showering/changing for dinner that evening, however,  she  played tennis with Rachel early afternoon, so there is a good chance she showered and changed before their afternoon trip to the beach.  In CCTV images at the beach she appears to be wearing trousers and a long sleeved purplish V necked top.  We also know she wore flip flops to dinner, so I assume she may well have been in the same outfit and her choice of footwear indicates she wasn't well prepared for the cold weather.  Her partner joined the dinner maybe 20 mins after her and so I think there is a good chance she asked to borrow his fleece when he arrived, as by 20.45 it would have become darker and colder.  If this is the case, her top at 20.30 would have been quite different from the top she was wearing 40 mins later and was quite likely the same one she is seen wearing in the CCTV, which looks purplish in the one image that has a little colour.

[Holly Goodhead]

So no identifiable prints from persons  who said they used the doors that evening.

Is it normal for fingerprints to be so unreliable ?

Many surfaces eg texture and chemical coatings make it impossible to recover fingerprints in sufficient detail to allow for analysis. 

[Holly Goodhead]

A total of 13 prints were found, 12 of which were described as 'inadequate'. The only 'adequate' one was taken from the side of the patio door. On 18th May the one finger print 'with sufficient value for identification' was identified as belonging to Nelson da Costa, GNR. That would be the one from the side of the patio door then imo.

What about those pertaining to KM?

[Holly Goodhead]

JT did borrow Rob's blue fleece/jumper - we just don't have confirmation of exactly when she borrowed it -  but she does mention wearing it during during her 21.10 check.  She also makes no mention of personally showering/changing for dinner that evening, however,  she  played tennis with Rachel early afternoon, so there is a good chance she showered and changed before their afternoon trip to the beach.  In CCTV images at the beach she appears to be wearing trousers and a long sleeved purplish V necked top.  We also know she wore flip flops to dinner, so I assume she may well have been in the same outfit and her choice of footwear indicates she wasn't well prepared for the cold weather.  Her partner joined the dinner maybe 20 mins after her and so I think there is a good chance she asked to borrow his fleece when he arrived, as by 20.45 it would have become darker and colder.  If this is the case, her top at 20.30 would have been quite different from the top she was wearing 40 mins later and was quite likely the same one she is seen wearing in the CCTV, which looks purplish in the one image that has a little colour.

The cctv footage I've seen of the beach bar/cafe/restaurant is so grainy I'm unable to distinguish colours.  Do you have access to better quality footage?

[G-Unit]

So no identifiable prints from persons  who said they used the doors that evening.

Is it normal for fingerprints to be so unreliable ?

No, just a fingerprint from a GNR officer after one visit to the apartment. I wish I knew where Kate McCann's prints were located on the children's bedroom window. The handle appears to be situated on the left side of the right hand window, so when that window was fully opened the handle would be on the far left of the window as a whole.

I assume, therefore, that the prints were on the right hand side of the window where one would place one hand if leaning out. There are 3 prints from her middle finger and 2 from her forefinger. I can understand the two fingers leaving 2 pairs of prints, although I would have expected more fingers to be used. Who uses just the middle finger to steady them when leaning out of a window though?

[Holly Goodhead]

I've copied the links to posts re fingerprints here:

https://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=11027.0

[kmc]

The cctv footage I've seen of the beach bar/cafe/restaurant is so grainy I'm unable to distinguish colours.  Do you have access to better quality footage?

I am not sure how clear these images will be, but the shirt she is wearing definitely looks purplish, especially in larger format.  It also looks remarkably like the same purple shirt she is photographed in at a later stage.  Additionally, JW made it very clear, at the time, that although he did not know her name he did recognise her as part of the holiday group - so again, I do not think Mrs Murat's sighting and JW's sighting were of the same person.  The timings don't fit and neither do the overall descriptions of clothing or build.  I only know of one other person recorded in the files as wearing a purple jacket and it wasn't Jane Tanner.

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