Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.

[j.rob]

At 11.45pm?

Well - lots of strange things were going on that week at the resort. We are asked by the McCanns to believe that a paedophile abducted their daughter on the evening of the 3rd May. The suggestion is that the paedophile attempted an abduction the evening before (2nd May) but was thwarted when Madeleine and her brother woke up.

So, on the basis of lots of strange things going on that week - who knows what was going on on the night of 1st May. It is on police record that a neighbour heard crying from the McCann's apartment for an hour and a quarter from 10.30pm until 11.45pm. The crying escalated in volume and the neighbour was concerned enough to contact another person about it to express her concern.

The neighbour heard the patio doors open but did not see who went in. If we take the McCann abduction theory at face value, who is to say that the abductor did not go in?  Perhaps he/she/they were casing the joint a few nights before?

Are there reliable records/accounts of Madeleine being seen at the resort after the evening of `1st May? Creche records/witness statements.

Quite important to ascertain that, in my opinion.

[j.rob]

This thread is also related, why did kate mccanns phone ping so many times around 10 30 that night of the crying starting as reported by Mrs Fenn...unlike any other night previously since arrival  or after until after abduction!


http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1805.msg56466#msg56466

Coincidence?

Eta sorry icab cross posted....

Good point - following this crying incident there was activity on the McCann phone line. Why would that be?

[pathfinder73]

Rachael Oldfield

1578    “So you, on the Wednesday evening then, you stayed in the apartment with Grace”?
Reply    “Yeah, yeah.  I remember reading my book on the sofa for a while and then think I, I went to bed but it would have been quite, you know it would have been about nine, cos I’d been up most of the night before, erm and I mean I know that on Thursday night when we sat down at the table, Kate said that to Madeleine and Sean had you know, said they’d been crying on the Wednesday night and asking where erm, they’d said they’d been crying and, and some, you know, this is sort of with hindsight but I you know, I was trying to think whether I’d heard anything but”.
1578    “On the Wednesday evening”.
Reply    “Mmm”.
1578    “Who said they’d been crying sorry”?
Reply    “Kate did, when we sat down at the table on the Thursday night, Kate said that erm, Madeleine and Sean had cried, said they’d been crying, erm and you know wondered where she was, or wondered where you know, Mummy and Daddy were, erm I mean this was kind of after Madeleine disappeared, we talked, she mentioned that when we sat at the table on Thursday and then after Madeleine had disappeared, erm McCANN’s said, oh well I wonder whether on the Wednesday, you know somebody had tried to get in perhaps or had got in and they’d seen something, erm you know and I was next door in the apartment but I mean I didn’t hear any, well you know, I didn’t hear anything,

[icabodcrane]

The more I read about the night of Tuesday  1st of May  ...  the night of the quiz that the tapas group have a collective amnesia about  ...   the night Mrs Fenn heard crying coming from the McCanns' apartment  for an hour and a quarter ...  the night Kate's phone had unprecidented activity   ...  the night that,  in her book,  Kate says Madeleine slept in their bed  ...  the more I wonder if that was the night something very significant happened 

[Benice]

The more I read about the night of Tuesday  1st of May  ...  the night of the quiz that the tapas group have a collective amnesia about  ...   the night Mrs Fenn heard crying coming from the McCanns' apartment  for an hour and a quarter ...  the night Kate's phone had unprecidented activity   ...  the night that,  in her book,  Kate says Madeleine slept in their bed  ...  the more I wonder if that was the night something very significant happened

Why do you claim ''collective amnesia''?   Neither the PJ nor the McCanns and their friends had any idea of what Mrs Fenn was going to say months later.      To them it was just a normal night - with nothing significant to report to the PJ.   If the PJ had interviewed Mrs. Fenn when they should have done - this whole matter may well have been cleared up within days of the abduction.   

I find it difficult to understand why  - after Mrs Fenn phoned her friend  apparently concerned enough to ask  advice -  that over an hour later they should still be chatting and yet Mrs Fenn did nothing.    What was the advice she was given and why is there no statement from her friend?
 

[j.rob]

The more I read about the night of Tuesday  1st of May  ...  the night of the quiz that the tapas group have a collective amnesia about  ...   the night Mrs Fenn heard crying coming from the McCanns' apartment  for an hour and a quarter ...  the night Kate's phone had unprecidented activity   ...  the night that,  in her book,  Kate says Madeleine slept in their bed  ...  the more I wonder if that was the night something very significant happened

Indeed... a significant night.

[j.rob]

Why do you claim ''collective amnesia''?   Neither the PJ nor the McCanns and their friends had any idea of what Mrs Fenn was going to say months later.      To them it was just a normal night - with nothing significant to report to the PJ.   If the PJ had interviewed Mrs. Fenn when they should have done - this whole matter may well have been cleared up within days of the abduction.   

I find it difficult to understand why  - after Mrs Fenn phoned her friend  apparently concerned enough to ask  advice -  that over an hour later they should still be chatting and yet Mrs Fenn did nothing.    What was the advice she was given and why is there no statement from her friend?
 

Nice try.....but quite frankly when a child is crying for over an hour and then a few days later there is (allegedly) an abuduction, it is perfectly understandably that people will ask questions.....

Mrs Fenn did nothing......oh so it is all her fault is it??

[icabodcrane]

Why do you claim ''collective amnesia''?   Neither the PJ nor the McCanns and their friends had any idea of what Mrs Fenn was going to say months later.      To them it was just a normal night - with nothing significant to report to the PJ.   If the PJ had interviewed Mrs. Fenn when they should have done - this whole matter may well have been cleared up within days of the abduction.   

I find it difficult to understand why  - after Mrs Fenn phoned her friend  apparently concerned enough to ask  advice -  that over an hour later they should still be chatting and yet Mrs Fenn did nothing.    What was the advice she was given and why is there no statement from her friend?
 

The  'collective amnesia'  I was refering to was the Tuesday night quiz 

None of the tapas group  ...   none  of them ...  could recall  (  in their rogatory interviews  )  which night the quiz was on  (  and therefore could not commit as to who was present at the table that Tuesday night,  and who was not  ) 

Even Russell O'Brien,  who was the tapas member claimed to be responsible for the empty chair that night  (  an empty chair that was witnessed by the aerobics instructor who joined the table that night  )  could not recall which night it was that he was absent 

The aerobics instructor did not recall seeing Kate McCann there  ...  just for reference

[AnneGuedes]

Do you remember boring events ? They might just be polite, not remembering.

[Sherlock Holmes]

One point of commonality between Kate McCann's statement and Mrs Fenn's is that 10.30, according to Kate, was the time that the last check took place, and according to Mrs Fenn it was at that time that the crying started.

Whatever mix-ups there might have been about the timings, doesn't it seem significant that Madeleine's crying - if we are to take these times at face vaule - began at the same time as the apartment was vacated?

Perhaps Madeleine was awakened, or began sleeping more lightly, during the check. Footsteps; a moving door. Or perhaps closing the door on the way out made a noise which woke and scared her, causing her to start crying.

...Perhaps, alternatively, an intruder entered the apartment shortly after 10.30, seeing that a check had just been made. That would have been an opportune time to go in.

[pathfinder73]

I'm reading that they went on to Chaplins which is 800 metres away on TUE 1st May so that's why they never heard Madeleine crying on the night for over an hour because they never checked when they were there. They arrived back at 11.45pm according to Fenn and the crying stopped. I will need to look further into this Chaplins lead.

[Benice]

Nice try.....but quite frankly when a child is crying for over an hour and then a few days later there is (allegedly) an abuduction, it is perfectly understandably that people will ask questions.....

Mrs Fenn did nothing......oh so it is all her fault is it??

I just think it's strange that having mentioned her concerns  to her friend that their combined decision was to to do absolutely nothing ?     As there were several children in 'the floor below' then IMO it cannot be claimed that it could only have been Madeleine that Mrs Fenn heard. 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Do you remember boring events ? They might just be polite, not remembering.

Well hello, Anne! This isn't a boring event!

[Benice]

I'm reading that they went on to Chaplins which is 800 metres away on TUE 1st May so that's why they never heard Madeleine crying on the night for over an hour because they never checked when they were there. They arrived back at 11.45pm according to Fenn and the crying stopped.

 A long since discredited forum myth.

[icabodcrane]

Do you remember boring events ? They might just be polite, not remembering.

No Anne  ...  there is a  strangely uniform and determined effort to be particularly vague and  'forgetful'   about that night   (  Tuesday 1st of May  )  by  all  the tapas group 

It's there in the rogatory interviews