Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.

[Redblossom]

Reading Tramners statement it was very clear her elderly aunt was more compus mentus than she was! At every step of the way!
No comparison

So lets stay with the actual words in the pj files for now for mrs fenn re wednesday hey? If some kind portuguese reader can translate

[pegasus]

On 22 Aug 2007 a SIC news broadcast and a Correio da Manhã newspaper report both indicate that the date Mrs F heard the crying was one day before the disappearance.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2007/12/mrs-fenn-british-press-its-all-rubbish.html

[colombosstogey]

On 22 Aug 2007 a SIC news broadcast and a Correio da Manhã newspaper report both indicate that the date Mrs F heard the crying was one day before the disappearance.
http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2007/12/mrs-fenn-british-press-its-all-rubbish.html

Is this true:

Mrs Fenn has told friends she heard a noise as she watched television and found a man escaping through her bedroom window. Her niece, who was staying with her, also saw the man.

Carol Tranmer wasnt staying with her aunt....

[Benice]

FGS Benice - read my previous posts and you will find direct quotes from the McCanns denying it was Madeleine.

Can either Carana or Benice please show me where O'Brien/Tanner, Oldfield or the McCanns (all 3 residing on the floor below) have taken ownership of their child crying upon their return on 1st May 2007? If you cannot do this then one of those 3 sets of parents have deceived the PJ or Mrs Fenn is lying. It is simple logic that you have not yet addressed.

How can you know that ? - the other two families  were back in the UK by the time the PJ interviewed Mrs. Fenn.  As far as I know they were not asked by the PJ to make further statements about the 1st May as a result of her interview.   And IIRC  no requests were made from the PJ regarding this 'incident' when the rog statements were made.    So when did they deceive  the PJ?   
 
However, that does not rule out the possibility  that those parents may have spoken with SY about it.    SY can talk directly to people who are involved in this case if they think clarification is needed.  We cannot do that.       Which is why I keep saying SY know vastly more about this case than we do.

Anyone who expects the McCanns or their friends to actually make public statements  'explaining themselves'    - every time some random member of the public  thinks they have found something which THEY think is  'suspicious' in the files during the last 6 years - is being extremely unrealistic  IMO.   


 

[j.rob]

How can you know that ? - the other two families  were back in the UK by the time the PJ interviewed Mrs. Fenn.  As far as I know they were not asked by the PJ to make further statements about the 1st May as a result of her interview.   And IIRC  no requests were made from the PJ regarding this 'incident' when the rog statements were made.    So when did they deceive  the PJ?   
 
However, that does not rule out the possibility  that those parents may have spoken with SY about it.    SY can talk directly to people who are involved in this case if they think clarification is needed.  We cannot do that.       Which is why I keep saying SY know vastly more about this case than we do.

Anyone who expects the McCanns or their friends to actually make public statements  'explaining themselves'    - every time some random member of the public  thinks they have found something which THEY think is  'suspicious' in the files during the last 6 years - is being extremely unrealistic  IMO.

But the McCann's listened to mystics and apparently followed up 'sightings' from what you describe as random members of the public.

Mrs Fenn does not fall into the category of 'random member of the public' despite Kate's contempt for her (which is understandable as she heard a highly distressed child or person crying in the McCanns apartment for an hour and a quarter one night).

Given the McCann's quite obvious agenda they will want to downplay any reliable witness reports and focus on irrelevant 'sightings' from all over the world. The world is quite a big place so it is fairly safe to assume that there will be no vital clues coming from random places all over the world

On the other hand, the sleepy little Portugese resort where Madeleine met her fate is small. Employees, staff, neighbours, residents and holiday-makers are extremely important witnesses.

Kate has helpfully written in her book how she shouted at Mrs Fenn. In actual fact, it is reported that Mrs Fenn offered to phone the police but Kate said that had already been done.

Which it hadn't. The first of many little.....what shall we call them......

Given that the McCanns and their friends left their children unattended every night, it would hardly be surprising that there would be children crying........it is a perfectly feasible witness statement......I would give it 100% more accuracy than the story that Kate and Gerry came up with......complete with the curtains blowing in the breeze

Isn't it funny how a curtain blowing in the breeze can have more significance (to Kate and Gerry) than a child crying out in distress for an hour and a quarter?

And don't you think it is odd that Kate would shout at a neighbour who offered to help. A neighbour who could potentially be a vital witness. Why did Kate not ask Mrs Fenn if she had noticed anything peculiar? If Mrs Fenn had heard a child crying that night? If there were any sounds of commotion coming from the apartment?

Very peculiar indeed.

[j.rob]

And don't let's forget that Madeleine DID meet her fate in that sleepy little resort. Even if we are to believe what the McCanns say (does anyone any more - even the McCanns themselves?) that she was abducted by a stranger who was a paedophile that is not a very nice fate.

Therefore, the place to search for clues as to Madeleine's fate is that little resort.

Strange how the McCanns themselves contaminated the crime scene, along with their friends. Yet they blamed the police for that. What happened to all those employees at the Ocean Club - the nannies and so on who would have looked after Madeleine, even, apparently, on the day she disappeared. According to the McCanns she was in the creche that day. Surely those staff would be vital witnesses?

The McCann's are scathing about the Portugese police - yet what did the McCanns do in the hours after Madeleine allegedly was abducted. Kate didn't look for Madeleine that night but nevertheless has the audacity to write, on page 81 of her ghastly book: ' None of them appeared to be doing very much.'

Perhaps they were taking their cue from Madeleine's mother and father who thought it was fine to leave the children on their own and then hatch an absurd little story when disaster strikes.

[jassi]

And don't let's forget that Madeleine DID meet her fate in that sleepy little resort. Even if we are to believe what the McCanns say (does anyone any more - even the McCanns themselves?) that she was abducted by a stranger who was a paedophile that is not a very nice fate.

Therefore, the place to search for clues as to Madeleine's fate is that little resort.

Strange how the McCanns themselves contaminated the crime scene, along with their friends. Yet they blamed the police for that. What happened to all those employees at the Ocean Club - the nannies and so on who would have looked after Madeleine, even, apparently, on the day she disappeared. According to the McCanns she was in the creche that day. Surely those staff would be vital witnesses?

The McCann's are scathing about the Portugese police - yet what did the McCanns do in the hours after Madeleine allegedly was abducted. Kate didn't look for Madeleine that night but nevertheless has the audacity to write, on page 81 of her ghastly book: ' None of them appeared to be doing very much.'

Perhaps they were taking their cue from Madeleine's mother and father who thought it was fine to leave the children on their own and then hatch an absurd little story when disaster strikes.

Whipped away within days by MW, so they were beyond the reach of the PJ for further questioning.
Understandable, perhaps, from MW's point of view, but unhelpful for those carrying out an investigation.

[j.rob]

Indeed. I wonder how that was supposed to help find justice for Madeleine?  Key witnesses removed from the crime scene. No wonder the Portugese police despaired,

[Benice]

But the McCann's listened to mystics and apparently followed up 'sightings' from what you describe as random members of the public.

Mrs Fenn does not fall into the category of 'random member of the public' despite Kate's contempt for her (which is understandable as she heard a highly distressed child or person crying in the McCanns apartment for an hour and a quarter one night).
snipped

You have completely missed the point.   The 'random members of the public'  I refer to are people like us on Forums etc.  some of whom appear to think that because some of the group have not publically issued explanations on scenarios which THEY with hindsight have since decided are suspicious - then that is proof of guilt/deceit on the part of those members of the group.       That is a ludicrous suggestion IMO.

There is nothing in the files, as far as I know, to show that any members of the group were interviewed by the PJ at any time about Mrs Fenns claims.   That is not proof of 'deceit' by anyone.   If since that time they have been interviewed by SY about that incident - then there is no way that would be made public for obvious reasons.

'Deceit' doesn't come into it.

[Benice]

Whipped away within days by MW, so they were beyond the reach of the PJ for further questioning.
Understandable, perhaps, from MW's point of view, but unhelpful for those carrying out an investigation.

Common sense dictates that it was a decision made because it was asking too much for the nannies to perform their jobs properly in the same place where they had taken care of Madeleine.    They would be terribly upset.

I would guess that another reason was because their lives would be made a misery by the Press.

There was nothing to stop them coming back at any stage if required by the PJ for further questioning.

I see nothing sinister in any of that.

[AnneGuedes]

Reading Tramners statement it was very clear her elderly aunt was more compus mentus than she was! At every step of the way!
No comparison

So lets stay with the actual words in the pj files for now for mrs fenn re wednesday hey? If some kind portuguese reader can translate

  No doubt.
There are mistranslations in the files (Mrs Fenn's statement has been checked many times), but at the police station there was a professional interpreter and the statement had to be signed by the stator after having been read and eventually corrected. Finally Mrs Fenn indicated the name of the friend she called on the phone in order for the police to confirm the time.
The AG found no motive to doubt Mrs Fenn's statement, in particular concerning the date and time, and that statement is one of the factors that lead to the request for a reconstitution.
Which obviously doesn't suit some posters' agenda.

[AnneGuedes]

So if the incident switches to weds then why have they still not taken ownership of this instance of returning to a crying child? It would have been pretty simple to say "no that must have been the weds, that's the only time all holiday that we returned and he/she was crying"

Exactly. The statement "it isn't true" (whereas it is) illustrates why these parents needed imperatively a spokesperson.

[pathfinder73]

Kate is in the apartment on the phone just prior to when Madeleine starts crying for her Daddy. Kate has some serious questions to answer. Why was one cot in their bedroom on WED? Ms Chekaya couldn't remember seeing Kate or DP at the tapas table. It's similar to DP's 6.30 visit. What were the pair of them doing as it's just contradiction after contradiction? Kate said Madeleine was tired and worn out on the day she disappeared (reason for daily routine change so that 6.30-7pm period is vital to this case). Rosdeep said Mikaeel RIP was ill before he disappeared. Time to take the kid gloves off with the Tapas 9.

[jassi]

One would hope that the SY team are paying attention to what is emerging north of the border.

[AnneGuedes]

ETA: No one seems to have asked Mrs Fenn if she'd also heard the gates. Wouldn't that be a logical question to ask?

No. There's a huge difference in resonances between the street gate and the sliding door-window.